When You Disagree With Wildlilfe Management, Call It “Flawed Science”
May 8, 2009
Words are easy to put together that can make something sound wonderful. Words are incredibly powerful and smart people can use them to alter facts and completely change perceptions and reality. They can just as easily be used to present the truth. It is then left up to the individual to learn and decide for themselves.
Jeremy Hance provides commentary on the “flaws in science” of wolf management on a website called Mongabay.com. I’m not going to spend my time attempting to debunk the commentary but I will say that it contains mostly all the same rhetoric we hear day in and day out about how the top wolf scientists in the world don’t know what they are doing. He presents incomplete information leading readers to believe things that aren’t quite true. But what I find interesting is his interest in convincing readers that science pertaining to wolves should involve non-scientific theories of fantasy about how ignorant man has no understanding of nature and all we ever do is destroy it.
For the sake of this article, here is one part of the commentary where Hance is offering comment on the decision by the Obama administration to continue with former President Bush’s proposal to once again attempt to remove the gray wolf from protection under the Endangered Species Act.
While Salazar states that his decision is based entirely on science—and I believe him and commend such a change from the Bush Administration—the problem is that the science is shortsighted and rooted in conservation ideas that are making their way out the door due to the fact that they are not proving effective in sustaining healthy, long-term populations of species in trouble—especially of large predators like the wolf.
The de-listing of wolves from the ESA is too soon and will unravel decades of work, wasting countless hours of work and the 27 million dollars spent on reintroducing wolves into lost habitat.
This is obviously Hance’s opinion and we can take that as such because this piece is labeled “commentary”. Readers should know that wildlife science is not making its way “out the door” because what they do is ineffective. Quite to the contrary. Fantasy worship of wolves by groups of individuals who have their own unproven theories spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaigns to promote their ideals. Such has always been the case with animal rights groups and in this case wolf advocates.
Tony Mayer, a founder of Save Our Elk and a long time supporter of complete wildlife management, has offered his own rebuttal to this commentary.
ENOUGH OF THIS NON-SENSE
Why is it that whenever anyone suggests the need for wolf management that a self proclaimed “expert” (such as the author of this article) sees the need to portray the decision as lacking “depth” and in the “knowledge” that they have mystically endowed upon themselves.
The decision by Secretary Salazar and President Obama to affirm delisting was reached only after significant deliberation of all the facts, and only after assessing the “sound science” facts and studies presented by the expert scientists and biologists involved. Their decision was arrived at only after considering the overwhelming evidence and facts supporting the immediate need for delisting. Their decision followed principles of “SOUND SCIENCE”.
Wolves were re-introduced in 1994-95, with and all stated wolf recovery goals reached and surpassed in early 2002. Since then, wolves have continued to grow at 25% annually with the current stated wolf population exceeding 850 in Idaho and over 1550 in the three states of Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. However, the actual wolf population is much higher. Dr. David Mech, the lead USFW wolf biologist instrumental in the original Gray Wolf introduction, acknowledged under oath that due to conservative counting methods, the actual rocky mountain wolf population exceeds 3000 wolves (over 10 times their original recovery goal). Dr. Mech is known as the preeminent world wolf expert. However, because he chose to speak the scientific truth about wolves, he has been shunned and discredited by the same pro-wolf groups who had previously endorsed him.
It’s time for all pro-wolf advocates to recognize that wolves have fully recovered, and that they have surpassed their recovery goals by over 1000%.
It’s beyond time for recognition of the need for delisting, and it is time to allow states to implement their Federally Approved State Management Plans as was always intended and promised. It’s time to move forward with the “sound science” principles afforded in the states management plans for wolves to co-exist in our wildlife ecosystem, and be afforded long term guarantees for survival that are incorporated in these Management Plans. Interior Secretary Salazar and President Obama understand and accept this need, and of the “sound science” involved. The readers of this article have a choice on who they will believe and what type of science to follow.
Tony Mayer
Tom Remington
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Tony Mayer stated “Dr. David Mech, the lead USFW wolf biologist instrumental in the original Gray Wolf introduction, acknowledged under oath that due to conservative counting methods, the actual rocky mountain wolf population exceeds 3000 wolves.” What Tony Mayer failed to mention is that this was Dr. Mech’s forecast number for spring 2008, to quote: “Every year, most wolf populations almost double in the spring through the birth of pups. For example in May 2008, there will not be 1,500 but 3000 wolves!” About half of them did not survive.
The NRM wolf population showed an 8% increase in 2008; This year’s annual government winter wolf count found 497 in Montana, 302 in Wyoming, and 846 in Idaho. Wyoming’s population was down 19% due primarily to distemper and control measures.
Springtime in the Northern Rockies with 1645 adult wolves.
Just an estimate.
Yawn…To bad while they was out counting, oops I mean estimating how many wolves there really are they did not think to photograph all those 125,000 elk standing out in the big wide open for all to see..Meanwhile we got wolves looking into our barnyards still this spring instead of following those 125,000 elk during their migration back towards the high lonesome..and those snow lines…harassing our horses, chickens, dogs, cows, goats, grouse, pheasants, on our private property mind you…these pests must be tired of chasing elk…either that or elk are getting mighty scarce…around these parts.And to top it off I walk within twenty yards of them waving and yelling and they just look at me like I’m bait….
Meanwhile I just love these government paid “experts” no matter what scientific field their hired to bamboozle us in, whether it be biology, zoology, weather science, astronomy, astrophysics, even political sciences..not to mention carbon dating, you name it writing about it, discussing their views in public of their universal based hogwash known as their ” standard” of reality—I just laugh listening to them as they fall all over themselves and their excuses while trying to pretend there is any credence in their theoretical horse shit structures only to admit that the very basis of all their theories is in their imaginations and can never be detected or verified scientifically…The smart wolves are leaving Idaho now for prey richer pastures and the stupid ones want to live on the farms..One is a decimate the prey base and run to another state wolf, the other is a god damn socialist trying to steal our property….Only government could think up something this stupid…inhabit our front yards with disease infested mongrel mutts.. and have the audacity to us we can’t even shoot. em….Who needs enemies with a big brother like this hanging round…
More senseless ramblings from Greg. Give an example to illustrate ” listening to them as they fall all over themselves and their excuses while trying to pretend there is any credence in their theoretical horse shit structures only to admit that the very basis of all their theories is in their imaginations and can never be detected or verified scientifically.”
A wall covered with degree’s does not constitute intelligence, knowledge or common sense, and it does not gain credibility when being funded by sources wishing for their predetermined outcomes, and then failure brings forth denial and outright lies..If your to stupid to see that right in front of your own two eyes you cannot be convinced otherwise..I have traveled over 45,000 miles on horse back in Wyoming and Idaho and the lies concerning habitat and over populations of elk being the root cause of that habitat damage are out right lies..and the enviro Ertz’s of this world photo op spring tall grasses and then return in late October and photo op it again and cry foul- those nasty elk or cattle decimated this place..BULLSHIT…I have seen high desert ranges dry up in late summer fall my entire life…and return to full bloom the following spring and summer during run off and rains..only to dry up again and blow away…and then repeat, whether elk or cattle are on the land or not…That’s one example..
Clearly real science can only be accomplished when honest scientists gather and are not influenced by financial gain, career advancement, and those scientists are not influenced by threat of any kind, scientists who do not abuse public trust, misuse of public resources, scientists who only seek the truth and do not allow emotions or agenda’s to interfere, that is simply not the case today, and it falls back even to the time of Tesla..Modern scientific research is rarely accurate or uncontaminated by hidden agendas and government interference. You simply refuse to face it..
Radiocarbon Dating : Invented by Willard Libby and first applied in 1949…radioactive dating techniques are far less reliable than was previously thought; the Earth could be much younger than has been supposed by Darwinists; and nothing like the billions of years required by evolution have elapsed since Earth’s formation..
The amount of carbon 14 in the world erroneously thought to be constant.
Dr. Melvin Cook showed for example that if you used the uranium-decay method on the rocks of the crust you got the conventionally accepted age of over four thousand million years. But if you used the selfsame method on the atmosphere, you got an age of only a few hundred thousand years..
He also showed that the entire amount of ” radiogenic ” lead in the world’s two largest uranium deposits could be entirely modern. Clearly a problem..
Funkhouser and Naughton at the Hawaiian Institute of Geophysics used the potassium-argon method to date volcanic rocks from Mount Kilauea and got ages up to 3 million years—-when the rocks are known to have been formed in a modern eruption in 1801.. McDougall at the Australian National University found ages of up to 465,000 years from lava in New Zealand that is independently known to be less than 1,000 years old..
There’s 2
Here’s a third : Charles Darwin did not write The Origin of Species thesis…His Grand Father wrote it…Jesuit priest Erasmus Darwin..among other clowns..
All though the above data exists this unproven evolutionary theory is taught with reckless abandon..in public indoctrination centers..
Myths exposed,
Wolves only kill the weak and sick..
Wolves do not attack humans..
Wolves do not sport or reflex kill
Wolves are shy and innocent beings who will stay in the wilderness area’s…
Wolves can manage elk herds, man dos not need to..
Wolves will heal and cure the habitat and eco systems..
Wolves are retraining elk to live correctly..and function as elk did in ancient times..
ALL FALSE. 3
“When money comes in the door, science goes out the window.”
—Royal Raymond Rife—
Selective memory–A malady that commonly strikes politicians bankers, economists, and scientists every time their prognostications prove false…But they all will spend billions to cover it up..versus confessing failure..
The wolf program per example…
Greg, go to bed.
I can’t sleep..
Political Science
Read the Communist Manifesto and the Ten Planks of Communism. 1848.
Read the Bill of Rights agreed upon in 1792..
You believe you live under the Bill of Rights..
False you live under the Ten Planks of Communism.
4
Greg, now I can’t sleep. Thanks for speaking the truth
ar
About what did Greg speak the truth; everything?
Radiocarbon Dating should not even be in his dialog since it is only reliable for dates less than about 50,000 years and he subscribes to Earth less than 10,000 years. Within that range it is very accurate.
“The amount of carbon 14 in the world erroneously thought to be constant.”; from whence? reference
Funkhouser and Naughton tested the age of zenoliths, mantle inclusions, in the recent lava flows in Hawaii not the age of the lava. Rather like the the raisins in a cookie are older than the cookies that come fresh out of the oven.
What evidence that Charles Darwin did not write Origin. Another blantent out of context lie.
ar says: Lee, it’s there. You see it or you don’t.
Lee,
Your not supposed to believe anything I say…your supposed to research it to prove me incorrect, that is how I win so often, because i piss people off intentionally so to the point that wish to destroy me and prove me a fool, whereupon those who really seek this out come to find out i am correct and most often I get a thank you in the end…The ones I lose like you never seek out the facts..
1794 Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802) released “Zoonomia” One of the first theories of evolution. Erasmus Darwin wrote and spoke often about evolution, as early as 1770, in poems, and in scientific studies, he was a scientist and inventor, writer. physician. This man invented many things, and wrote extensively about evolution during his lifetime. I’ve read all of it I can find over the years…The truth is he wrote “species”.
All one need do is find, read, research old writings by Erasmus Darwin and the truth of who authored what jumps off the pages to you..They tried to introduce this theory many times historically and in fact this theory can be traced back centuries behind this man as well…The world was not ready until later…Charles released his grandfathers works, and took the credit…
Erasmus Darwin 1731-1802. Charles was born February 12, 1809…History speaks to those who listen Lee.. Your favorite big brother removed thousands of books from these American library’s prior to 1960…Most of my American collection was found in Europe.. Your free to believe the liars, I’m free to find the truth, and hard work it is..I’ll not except nothing less..
Al Gore gets slammed by Congress over his global warming fraud and hoax..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54qbSoH3G0U
But government thugs told us the truth about their wolves, you betcha…
Your beloved Obama Administration recently claimed they might need to resort to injecting pollution in our skies to thwart global warming…”Might need to ” I beg to differ because i have been watching those injections now for five years, I have tested 50+ plus dirt samples from Idaho Forests where hundreds of thousands of trees have died in massive groves…Barium and aluminum were and are present…I presented this to you Lee, Brian Ertz, and other so called planet protectors only to be ignored or worse…name called…You environmentalists are frauds and cowards…
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2815320198655156407
This is the real damage to our environment, that and your coward head in the sand..
5
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2815320198655156407 Ranchers and their cattle, nor elk hurt habitat, planes injecting barium and aluminum do..
“Barium and aluminum were and are present”
Describe how your research was constructed.
By collecting soil samples and having trusted scientists do the tests and paying for their work out of my own pocket.. By following the advice of the people doing this testing and gathering themselves who are far more experienced than I am at this type of research…I did it to see if they were full of BS or being factual..I can’t prove them wrong…You should show some initiative to prove it to yourself and then help stop this aerosol nonsense…It is real. Clifford Carnicom is the real deal..See for yourself…Google chemtrails+aluminum
http://www.carnicom.com/flame.htm
http://www.carnicom.com/ppml.htm
http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.html
It’s not the ranchers or their cows destroying habitat and it is not elk either, it is hooved ungulates..Mans oldest professions of herding livestock and growing plants for food is not destroying the habitat or the earth…
http://www.carnicom.com/flame1.htm
http://www.carnicom.com/ppm1.htm
Sorry these eyes are tired this morning, been up out at the hills all night looking through my night vision goggles…I’m beat..
Greg, you are so scientifically ignorant that there is no way to communicate with you about issues on which we differ.
Iron Mountain Report
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6745627342652553091
This 1991 video is well worth the two hours..
Lee, this is the flawed science thread and government bought and paid for science is definitely flawed, dishonest, and nothing more than ignorant abusive rights stealing filth…It is not science it is a con job.. You like controlled debate, then go to Maughan’s web site, he dictates what can be said and shown there.. This web site is open to all discussion..You like government controlled scientists, who install lies into truths…wrap it up all nice and fuzzy and wash it down for your mind…They would never ever think of lying and cheating would they…
I purposely did not give you the science dialog you wish for simply because you do not wish to seek truth, you only seek to discredit anything not in line with your mind you have already given away to deception..Instead of attempting to trash your opposition I wonder why you do not test some soil samples to see for yourself the foreign substance which is there…
I followed scientific instructions which I received from scientists on how to perform gathering and providing soil to be tested by a professional, that is pretty cut and dried in my book..
Enjoy your emotionless, indoctrinated, self serving, incompetent, inhumane little world you cling to..A world of lies..The world of the slave..a closed mind..
Charles Darwin said..or some Darwin said;
” The number of intermediate varieties which have formerly existed on Earth must be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be argued against my theory.”
Teach it in the public school anyhow..
God did say man is ignorant…he is right.. I trusted no church nor bible preacher, I went directly to the original source, where a study of the very scientific Bible using Hebrew as my guide showed me there are no contradictions which we find in the English translations.. That is where the prolific source of Biblical confusion has been and the created inconsistency comes from..by intent…Some of us trust no man..and seek for ourselves, while others seek nothing except like minded men to follow…There is and incredible amount of information past and present happening all around us..to bad your eyes are shut while being wide open..
Time will tell which of us is the less ignorant…and I know that at that time one shall realize his error….I may be ignorant, but you sir are a beguiled simpleton..
Element % Weight in Earth’s Crust
Oxygen 46.60
Silicon 27.72
Aluminum 8.13
Iron 5.00
Calcium 3.63
Sodium 2.83
Potassium 2.59
Magnesium 2.09
Greg, you are calling aluminum a” foreign substance”? WOW!! Notice which element is number three in abundance. The most common minerals are metal silicates, which are composed of silicon and oxygen . This is the reason the first two elements shown in the table make up over 74% by weight of the earth’s crust. I don’t find it surprising or perplexing that one can detect aluminum in soil samples. I would be amazed if it was not found!
Aluminum not in its natural form but altered by man is a foreign substance..once removed from those silicates..In Charles Little’s book he writes ;
” Aluminum is a common constituent of forest soils almost every where, but it is locked up in aluminum silicates, and in this compound form is not available to trees and other plants–
It was discovered after acid rains come the silicates were broken down, and the aluminum was freed to be taken up by trees and plants, the trees – plants are weakened and can be invaded by insects-pathogens-beetles- or secumb to severe cold or hot weather…
Cliff Carnicom and others in the several links provided above show and explain the contents of the aerosols spraying and have identified barium+aluminum and other materials being present..in those pollution injections which eventually ends up on the ground..I’m sure you understand Lee, what goes up must come down..
I suspected a long time ago you do not bother to read links or articles provided..I would assume you had at least read this very documentation in the blog I wrote where you left your reply whining about a misspelled chemical typo error on my part.. Thanks for verification of your failure to fairly read supplied documentation…written and video form…
Further more the professional I paid to do the tests was quite aware of the natural silicates in the soils and did not mention any signs of acid rains having been in Central Idaho, Well then I wonder how the aluminum separated from the silicates and made itself appear altered…That is Amazing..
Greg,
What is aluminum’s natural form? Explain this “altered by man is a foreign substance” ?
Go have Carnicom explain that process to you..He is one of the scientist’s making the accusations via documentation..Your a fool, anybody can answer that question with a short amount of basic research..I know the answer but you waste my time..If it is not government approved science it must be bunk right Lee…All the testing soil samples and water samples and filter samples are bunk science and that invisible substance to the eyes would never land on the soil…LMAO..
That certainly is amazing:
Greg ” I wonder how the aluminum separated from the silicates and made itself appear altered. ”
It was a miracle!
So your insinuating scientists claiming acid rains break this component down is false and scientist’s in laboratory’s can not break this component down to liquid form either..your saying it will not dissolve..your saying the injection of this component is not harming our soil and trees, and as usual you are only looking for the incorrect choice of grammar or typo and nothing else…your looking for any way to possibly discredit rather than explore the possibility of this injection process and the possibility of harm done..to soil water and air..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S80XzXL9DP4&feature=related
Man has scientifically altered natural metals for scientific purposes for how long Lee, and you call this a miracle..lol…If i pull gold from the ground and make coins of it then bury it back into the ground I suppose that is a miracle.. I’ve actually done this, I am a miracle worker..
Greg, I think there are some simpletons out there who believe almost any thing they read, especially if is from some bureaucratic agency..they have no way of appreciating what you said in your post above:
“Clearly real science can only be accomplished when honest scientists gather and are not influenced by financial gain, career advancement, and those scientists are not influenced by threat of any kind, scientists who do not abuse public trust, misuse of public resources, scientists who only seek the truth and do not allow emotions or agenda’s to interfere, that is simply not the case today,
How few “true and moral” scientists there are today, I can attest to, after being involved in the scientific community for enough years to see it first hand…Too bad Lee never learned what “scientific skepticism” is all about…thanks for giving us some of your first hand insight, and well read analysis….
Some people are gate keepers..( I will go with the worlds non elitist funded science community which supports Liberty, and the ownership of private property.)..Some people are freedom saboteurs and cointelpro operators. Some people support the environmentalists holocaust against nature.. Some realize their doing it some do not.. As I said before I say again the Ralph Maughan/Ertz/Marvel Society are frauds..
http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.html
http://www.holmestead.ca/index-ct.html
http://cryptogon.com/?p=7709
Sub Micron Level.
The greatest scientific Book I ever read tells me ” I will put to ruin those ruining the Earth.”
The 1966 Iron Mountain Invention known as the Environmental Holocaust continues..
Greg, you said (the aluminum) “made itself appear altered. ”
Aluminum does not makes anything do something.
Lee, still nit-picking? Why didn’t you quote the whole sentence? Hell, if you’re going to nit-pick, might as well do it right!
“Well then I wonder how the aluminum separated from the silicates and made itself appear altered…That is Amazing..”
Maybe he forgot the comma after “well”…..why, yes, he did! And he forgot the question mark after “altered”….why, yes, he did that too…My gosh, he must be illiterate, at least according to you! Me, I just think he was being facetious….but you could miss the point, unless it was jabbed in your gut…..
The point being, since you are so closed minded, anything Greg says is automatically relegated to your junkyard…..Me, I have often disagreed with Greg, but have learned more from disagreeing with him than I could have learned by dismissing what he says, as hokum…and many of his “conspiracy theories” are more valid than I ever considered possible…
Lee, loves those typo deals, but then I’ve known he is a grammar Nazi for around a year now.. I do get in a hurry at times and toss things down to fast and keep moving..Whoopee. I’ve seen very intelligent men make typo mistakes, and verbal mistakes during speech demonstrations..has nothing to do with credible..
Lee knows full well I know aluminum cannot make anything do something…Oh wait a minute..If aluminum is taken into an organic living thing it can make it die..human, animal, plant, tree…The aluminum made something die…once installed..lol.
http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/patents.html
http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2009/01/29/crisis-of-ignorance-from-global-warming-to-climate-change/
http://www.mayanmajix.com/art2152.html
I think this Atmospheric Geoengineering which is C.F.R. funded to supposedly shield earth from the sun is a huge elitist environmentalist mistake of epic proportions and is killing billions of acres of habitat via slow death…
But then Lee wants it to be Cattle and Elk…Anybody else ever notice Lee never offers any advice, information, Lee never sticks his neck out and takes any chances, Hell we don’t even no if his name is really Lee…
Obviously Lee must think aluminum powder mixed with barium oxide tossed in with a little sulpher dioxide and silica particles is good for the atmosphere and our habitat, our environment, since big brother is doing it…
He has proven I can’t always type correctly…snicker….
Aluminum, atomic number 13 out of 92 naturally occurring elements, is the most abundant metal on Earth, has 13 protons and 13 electrons. Its atomic weight is about 27 indicating that its most common isotope has 14 neutrons. At standard temperature and pressure (STP) it melts at 660° C and boils at 2057° C. It is never found free in contrast to gold, silver, or copper, but is always in combined form. It is produced by electrolysis of aluminum oxide in a heated, liquid solution with sodium aluminium fluoride. It is found in many minerals. Bauxite is the most common ore and is formed by weathering and leaching in warm climates. It has 3 valence electrons, Al2O3 or Aluminum oxide, also called alumina, has the mineral name corundum and is the second hardest mineral known, number 9 on Moh’s scale of hardness. Saphires and rubies are gemstones of this mineral. The upper layer of Earth’s crust is often called the sial for silica-aluminum its two major components. Feldspars, aluminum silicates of potassium , sodium, or calcium, constitute 60% of the earth’s crustal rocks. If you look at the granite in the Idaho batholith in the Frank Church Wilderness you can see the individual crystals of quartz, orthoclase and plagioclase (both of which are feldspars), hornblend, biotite and/or muscovite (micas), other minerals are also pressent in smaller amounts.
No, I am not insinuating that it can not be melted. All elements have a melting and boiling point. Mercury, a metal, and Bromine, a non-metal, are liquids at room temperature. At STP mercury freezes at -39° C and boils at 357° C, bromine’s FP is -7° C & BP is 59° C. Hydrogen, element 1, is a gas at STP. It can not be liquified unless cooled to -400 F and the confining pressure is 13 atmospheres. Absolute zero is ?459.67° F and is the coldest temperature possible. Platinum has a FP of 3215?° F and a BP of 6917?°F. Some compounds on the other hand may not exhibit change of state; for example if you heat mercuric oxide it decomposes into mercury and oxygen thus it exists only in the solid state.
Those “?” are typos. So the last part of the last paragraph should be:
Absolute zero is -459.67° F and is the coldest temperature possible. Platinum has a FP of 3215° F and a BP of 6917°F. Some compounds on the other hand may not exhibit change of state; for example if you heat mercuric oxide it decomposes into mercury and oxygen thus it exists only in the solid state.
Oh, it all makes sense now. gmab
Damn, Lee, you made a mistake, too…..thought you were faultless…at least in transcribing or cut and paste from some other source! Maybe you are a kettle calling the pot black, lol…
Fact is, Lee, bauxite is not “refined” aluminum…and as Greg stated, if you refine it or synthesize it, you’re going to have a “foreign” element available for poisoning or benefiting whatever is there ….
Personally, I can’t imagine what horrendous catastrophe would happen if the US government decided to “control” the weather…I know what disastrous environmental failure happened when they decided to put in the “cross Florida barge canal” …or they drained the Everglades….that was the corp. of engineers and the US Government….one in the same….and huge catastrophes, for the environment and the well being of those they thought they were “helping”……
Loved the most feared words you’ll ever hear from Ole Ronny Reagan…”We’re from the government, and we’re here to help”…….God save us all…even those who don’t credit their own Creator……
Fact is, jes, I did not say that bauxite is “refined” aluminum; I said it was the most common ORE of aluminum; similar to hematite being the most common ore of iron in the Mesabi Range of Minnesota. Processing the ore yields aluminum-27, which represents 100% of earth’s aluminum.
http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/iso013.html
Aluminum can NOT be synthesized and you are NOT going to have a “foreign” element since it the third most abundant element in Earth’s crust.
I cut and pasted nothing above; the only things I looked up were the melting and boiling points of the elements mentioned, the fahrenheit temperature of absolute zero, and the critical temperature and pressure of hydrogen. My curriculum in forestry required a strong background in science: botany, zoology, physics, geology, lots of chemistry, and math; electives included minerology and historical geology.
When I do submit quotes I always identify the author and/or source.
I agree about the Army Corp of Engineers causing environmental damage including Dworshak Dam on the NF of the Clearwater in Idaho. It flooded winter range for deer and elk, whitetail in particular. Many have drowned in trying to cross the winter ice.
I am sure that I have read more of the references Greg has given than he has for the ones I suggest.
I am still waiting for his evidence for 225,000 elk in Idaho in the early 1990s.
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/id/publications/technical_bulletins/tb_87-2.Par.98133.File.dat/part1.pdf
PAGE FIVE suggests a program to increase herd (estimates) from the 1985 figures up 20%. If you use math (which is all the rage) you could conclude by the percentage increases that you should be able to find close to this number of elk some where within the state during the 90’s
Thanks, George, for the link. I did some of the suggested math, 1985 to 1995 for Idaho. IF there were 118,000 elk in 1985, as you suggest, and IF the increase per 5 year period was 20% then by 1995 there would have been about 170,000 elk in Idaho. Still far below the 225,000 stated by Greg.
Following are figures from the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation regarding Idaho’s elk population (since these numbers do not fit with Greg’s beliefs he will “not accept” them just as he doesn’t accept Idaho’s F&G estimates – he has done that before; a convenient way of dismissing contradictary evidence; he also stated that there were only 25,000 elk in the state of Idaho in early 2008):
Year 1975 1980 1985 1990 1995 2000
IDAHO elk 75,000 90,000 110,000 115,000 116,000 110,000
Elk historically ranged from Atlantic to Pacific ( except Florida), Alaska to Mexico. Eastern elk were wiped out by the late 1800s, central plains elk were gone by 1900, Merrium elk of the southwest were extinct by 1906, tule elk in California were saved by a concerned rancher on his private land. All extinctions were caused by human activites, primarily market hunters and settlers.
Rocky Mountain elk were introduced into many areas where elk had been extripated.
The larger Manatoban (Canadian) elk has been “reintroduced” into North Dakota, Kentucky, and Tennessee. (Should this not be of concern, a foreign species in the USA?)
George and jes, thanks for backing up Greg; he needs it.
I expect after I submit this that the tables will be jumbled and hard to read.
http://www.bowhunting.net/NAspecies/elk1.html
Ever notice that when the responses get tough; Greg quits commenting?
Actually with one fell swoop you debunked all links provided, you debunked all scientists and ex feds providing information at those links, along with city and town biologists, you have proven your current with all science data even top secret, and obviously even though all science is years head of us all including yourself you debunked that also..As well all the humans beneath you who are nothing more than under educated insects at best do not know what their seeing when, like myself for example I watched over twenty fly bys yesterday morning before 8:00 am – and those aerosols trails left behind in the crossing pattern which has become typical and spread out into haze like cloud cover and blocked the blue sky’s was just my imagination even though it continued for the entire day and others saw it as well..Big Brother is my best friend and would never lie to me, screw me royally, or poisen me, ever…He would never pour nuclear radiation dust on me, or put toxic waste in my food either…I don’t see the point in trading chemical formula’s back and forth with you your fucking highness. I can collect more samples and give them to someone who cares about the environment and the habitat…Rather than play games with you when all you really want to do is discredit people, whether they be telling the truth or not.. You call that tough ? A simple I don’t think so would suffice.. We understand professor, your retirement could be in jeopardy, or your being paid to spread disinfo and debunk..while gathering intell…well I don’t give you none do I ? i know you game mate… Actually for me slinking around attempting to bust ” Popular mechanics” next great cover story is all the rage in this house right now.. I’m busy..
1. http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20071108.htm
2. http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20071219.htm
3. http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20080112.htm
Actually I stated 180,000 to 200,000 elk.. And from 1985 up to 1993 I read and visited with folks who believed those numbers.. When posting those comments you keep pissing and moaning about I did not realize the data would be gone..I also was a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation member at that time and perhaps the article was in a bugle.. We had more elk than you think we did Lee.., Even the desert country back then was loaded with elk, as i always hunted deer down their in 41-42 for 200″ Bucks and we saw elk all the time.. So big whoop, I can’t prove it..neither can you…One item i can recollect as well was 60,000 elk were harvested according to the data I read at the time.. I never imagined I would need the data..Keep having yourself a jolly time with it, I could care less…Some day we all can be perfect like you..
http://www.springerlink.com/content/v365120452265279/
http://www.nsti.org/Nanotech2009/abs.html?v=997
http://www.nsti.org/Nanotech2009/abs.html?i=997
Stu Keck knows about elk. Great, so does Tom, Dick & Harry.
Me? I’ve seen about 14 elk in the wild and 2 of them had blaze orange tracking collars on them. (Plus all the Stu Keck articles I can get my hands on!) PA has an ongoing program with a herd of elk we are trying to reestablish.
My place in the hills is close to areas the game commission use to reintroduce species into the forest. I know the game commission spent the better part of three months fencing off a huge area (in my backyard) released a number of elk into this enclosure kept watch over them for weeks on end. In time they took down sections of fence and allowed the acclimated elk to spread out into the surrounding state land. How many actually stayed in the area I don’t know. But for a while you could spot one now and again.
As far as backing Greg up? He does not need or want anybody to back him up and has said as much. Actually I think he could care less. In my own readings of the posts submitted by yourself and Greg. I’m comparing your FARTS against his THUNDER but what would I know.
PA Reintroduced Yellowstone Elk
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=471&q=151455
In 1913, Pennsylvania’s first shipment of Yellowstone elk arrived by train. The 50 elk cost about $30 each. Half of the Wyoming wapiti shipment went to Clinton County,
Idaho has reintroduced elk as well due to over protection of another predator known as the Couger, which wiped out the elk in the 20s-30s..Now we spend $400,000 per wolf so it can happen again and is happening at and alarming rate..But then some folks who read these blogs understand what time it is and why..Some folks realize the beast is ruining the Earth and beguiling the minds of most men as fast as he can because he knows he is fast running out of time..
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11893346/The-Bible-is-Scientific
http://www.creationists.org/scientific-foreknowledge-in-the-bible.html
http://www.bible.ca/b-science-evidences.htm
http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com/index/The_Bible_Foreshadows_Scientific_Discoveries
What does that evil Pope and his crew claim is his official title and has been stated publically through the years.. VACARIUS FILLII DEI The letters inscribed in the popes Mitre !! Which is Latin for Vicar of of the son of god…Which god ? NONE…
VICARIUS
V=5 I = 1 C = 100 A = 0 R = 0 I = 1 U = 5 S = 0
FILLII DEI
F = 0 I = 1 L =50 I = 1 I = 1 D = 500 E = 0 I = 1
Total = 666
In Revelation 13:18 It says ” Count the number of the Beast for it is Six-Hundred three score and Six.” ( 666 )
They control science, universities, 178 governments via their U.N. The beast controls his politics, and modern science, they invented evolution, and other nonsense..
Their “I.H.S” symbol ” The Seal of the Society of Jesus” Created by their first General, Ignatius Loyola, where ever this seal is openly displayed the Jesuit Order is in control…These Initials are the abbreviations for the pagan gods of the trinity they belong to ISIS–HORUS-SEB The Vatican shows this symbol inside thirty six knife tips points which when added arithmetically, total 666, the mark of the Beast…
United Nations Science is the forked tongue of Satan…Agenda 21, Sustainable Development, The E.S.A program, Smart Growth….New World Order…
It is a fact and it is taking place…Their science of lies mixed with truths has no credibility..PERIOD…
The Lord is my Shepard and he backs me up…The evidence is massive and that evidence is clear…
I would love to be sitting next to Lee the day he figures these truths out…The look on his face would be priceless…Humility is easy…
Every knee shall bow…every man shall admit Christ is his Lord…Even you Lee…
You’ll see…
That tough enough for ya big guy ?
Greg, I realize that you believe everyone will accept THE god when they are near death. Not so! Not for Charles Darwin (as you have stated elsewhere), Einstein (whom you call a plagerist), my Dad and Mother (both dead), or me. You have said elsewhere that there are no atheists in a foxhole. Prove it. Again it is what you want to believe but for which you have no proof. Empty words. Actually I and my family are agnostics.
Why is your god a HE?
George, thanks for the info on PA elk introductions. $30, a real bargain even then.
Mother was born 103 years ago today on a farm near Craigmont, Idaho, my favorite state.
George, thanks for the info on PA elk introductions. $30, a real bargain even then.
I hope all had as beautiful a day as I had here in the Willamette Valley. Beautiful spring green!
I didn’t realize agnostics were capable of believing anything, like the religion known as environmentalism and evolutionism..to funny.
Chemtrails Exposed on Discovery Channel..
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a4bt_chemtrails-exposed-on-discovery-cha_shortfilms
I posted the video up as a separate blog. Find it here.
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2009/05/29/are-we-being-chemed-on-by-our-government-to-control-global-warming/