New Jersey Farmers Angry About Bears! Corzine? “No Bear Problem!”
October 23, 2008
New Jersey governor Jon Corzine, along with his puppet regime in the Department of Environmental Protection, continue to lie to the people while burying their heads in the sand so they won’t see the truth about New Jersey’s bears. People are in danger, they are losing property and now farmers are losing tens of thousands of dollars from damage caused by bears destroying their crops and livestock. Needless to say, farmers are angry and are threatening to take matters into their own hands.
According to NJ.Com, one farmer has lost more than $20,000 in crop damage to bears, with little recourse. Those protecting the bears could care less about whether a farmer loses money. It means nothing to them. Their concern is their demented belief that bears or any animal for that matter has rights. When a bear can sit down in my kitchen and discuss things such as the upcoming election, then we should grant that bear rights. In the meantime, “We the People”, or doesn’t that apply in the Socialist Republic of New Jersey?
Many will ask and few will listen to the truth about what recourse the farmers have. If you listen to the DEP, why would the farmers be upset?
Farmers are invited annually to apply for “depredation permits,” which allow them to legally shoot errant bears, with restrictions, said Lawrence Herrighty, deputy director of the DEP’s Division of Fish and Wildlife. But only three farmers annually have asked for permits since the state began handing them out early in the decade, and this is the first year a farmer has used the permit to kill a bear.
“In these tough economic times, we fully understand the pressure on farmers, and we are willing to help,” Herrighty said. “But to shoot and shovel and not tell anybody, that isn’t helping them out.”
For those readers more interested in getting to the truth of the matter, consider this.
The permits have a shelf life of two weeks. Renewing one requires waiting for over-tasked state biologists to make field inspections, and farmers may employ only one pre-approved shooter and kill only one bear at a time.
“We’ve seen eight bears at a time, just in one field, and bears are out there every day,” said Brodhecker. “When I shoot one, I have to just stand there and watch the others keep going into my fields.”
Herrighty said his staff is working to overcome a distrust among farmers, who are convinced that the state cares more about protecting bears than agriculture. He vowed that the DEP will be more flexible on permit restrictions, if and when farmers report and substantiate more of their bear problems. (emphasis added)
And consider the truth in this statement.
“Killing a bear means a big fuss. You have some people, anti-hunters, who get angry over it and harass you,” he said. “People around here would just rather do things quietly, on their own.”
And then consider the outright lie in this statement, which is part of the problem in New Jersey.
“These farmers could save themselves a lot of trouble by investing in their farms, by taking the money they normally would lose and put up electrical fences,” said Janet Piszar, director of the animal rights-focused Bear Education And Resource group. “Bears are inappropriately punished and killed for human negligence to protect outdoor animals.”
Think of the arrogance, ignorance and the bold audacity of making such a statement.
If bears have rights, then I suggest Ms. Piszar invite the bears into her home and sit down and reason with them about the damage they are doing and suggest ways to find alternative feeding sources.
What is insane is there is a simple solution to New Jersey’s bear problems and it would cost the state nothing. It’s called a hunt. It’s been going on since the beginning of time and I know of no fish and game department in America that doesn’t agree with and utilize hunting as a game management tool.
The idea that we should just let bears run amok and unmanaged is absurd.
Tom Remington
Check Out Related Articles
If you enjoyed this post, make sure you subscribe to my RSS feed!
We feature the latest news, events and politics effecting the sports of hunting, fishing, and all outdoor activities in North America.
[...] Needless to say, farmers are angry and are threatening to take matters into their own hands. Accor Source Education - [...]
The fellow who claims bears have done $20,000 worth of damage to his corn crop is Thomas A Brodhecker who farms about 700 acres, and which public records show has received more than $180,000 of taxpayers money between 1996 and 2006.
See >> http://farm.ewg.org/farm/persondetail.php?custnumber=002590124&summlevel=summary for a quick summary of how much this farmer is hoovering out of the pockets of taxpayers every year.
What’s your feeling about welfare for farmers Tom?
How about welfare for bankers?
How about welfare for stock market executives?
Does this fellow have a “right” to welfare? Does he have a right to shoot anything he wants on his land? Can the two right be linked to a responsibility? What are your thoughts on that?
P.
I think the discussion is what to do about bears in New Jersey and not a discussion on welfare.
I’m not sure what it is you are implying. Are you suggesting that because Brodhecker receives welfare money he is a liar?
Perhaps you went away from the article thinking that I support the shoot, shovel and shut up method of dealing with problem bears. I don’t.
The issue here is that New Jersey has a bear problem and an easy solution in my opinion to this problem is to get a bear hunt going again to cut down the numbers.
Are you also suggesting that because Brodhecker is the recipient of welfare he gives up certain rights?
Brodhecker’s argument for shooting the bears is that the bears do economic damage. Of course, so too do birds, groundhogs, deer, mice, etc.
Does that mean ALL deer, groundhog, deer, mice, etc, should be exterminated over the entire state?
And how is Brodhecker harmed if the bear “damage” is easily offset by the welfare he is hoovering out of the pockets of taxpayers?
My question to you is this: Do you think farmers have a right to welfare? Do you think the state has a right to determine what and when things are hunted? And what is wrong with linking the two? After all, the states are ALREADY removing the right to hunt from dad who don’t pay child support.
What are YOUR thoughts?
P.
If Brodhecker is being rightfully compensated for his losses under New Jersey state law, then no Brodhecker doesn’t have much argument.
While you say that all animals do economic damage, don’t we need to consider to what extent that happens?
I personally don’t think anyone has a “right” to welfare.
I think every state has the responsibility to to manage its game animals and wildlife. That doesn’t dismiss a person’s right to lobby for the changes the state is adhering to.
You’re getting into areas of welfare and rights that have long been argued, as to whether a person on welfare still retains all the same rights as everyone else.
I don’t want to completely get away from the topic at hand which is whether the state of New Jersey should reinstate a bear hunt as part of their bear management plan of which they don’t have because Jackson through it away.
Look, we are all spiraling into a socialist/democratic state with much of the democratic part disappearing as well. The government is saying that a farmer can’t rightfully protect his property because to this point vocal groups have convinced the governor that hunting is a bad thing.
I’m not going to get into whether I think withholding a hunting license because of unpaid child support is right or wrong.
As a property owner, you should be able to rightfully protect your property, whether its from bears, skunks, or thugs from downtown.
I’m not clear on whether Brodhecker is receiving general welfare or whether he has been compensated for property losses through some state sponsored program. There is not mention of such a program and it’s nothing I have heard of coming out of NJ.
Also, I never mentioned that bears should be exterminated over the entire state. I’m not sure what you are asking if I think deer, groundhogs, etc. need to be exterminated.
There is a considerable difference between asking for responsible game management that includes a bear hunt that would reduce many of these problems than seeking extermination of bear in NJ. That would go against everything I am fighting for wouldn’t it?
I ask the question, because it seems to me that the arguments being used in NJ are all over the map and not very consistent or entirelty logical.
I am certainly NOT opposed to ethical bear hunting.
The U.S. black bear population is well over 500,000 and we can hunt black bear in a lot of places in the US without a problem at all.
Ditto managed lion hunting in several western states. The U.S. now has more lions than Africa, believe it or not. Within reason, and in the right location, lion hunting is entirely sustainable as well.
That said, there’s a litany of arguements being used today to justify hunting large predators such as bears, wolves, and lions that I find very odd and not at all well founded.
In fact, the repetition of these arguments makes the hunting community look silly and simply not well-grounded in fact.
A frequent argument, for example, is that bears and lions and wolves are a threat to humans in the woods. Sorry, but this is a contrived fear. The facts and data here are not hard to find; you are more likely to drown in your bathtub or die on the road going to your tree stand that be killed by any animal in the U.S. and that INCLUDES even small regional mortality spikes where wolves, bears, lions, and alligators are very, very common. Wildlife attacks on humans in the U.S. are about as rare as free-range zebra. The simple fact of the matter is that everywhere in the U.S. (including the inter-mountain West), the most dangerous animal is the … honey bee.
In this day and age, I think it’s silly to salute all those old Outdoor Life and Reader’s Digest stories in which folks claimed a bear “nearly ate me alive before I managed to squeeze off a round and kill it with a bullet to the brain.”
Those stories were nonsense then, and they are nonsense now.
Let’s move past campfire stories for small children. Do we really need them to rationalize hunting in America? I think not!
Which takes us to crop and cover loss, and basic management protocols to reduce disease and stress in wild animal populations while maintaining the economic engine that is hook-and-bullet conservation in this country.
I am all for that.
That said, let’s be clear that if our goal is COMPLETE ERADICATION of all crop and stock loss in an area, we will have to eliminate ALL wildlife, from small bugs to big bears. It simply cannot be done any other way. And to argue for that is to drift past reality and into insanity.
Nor is it necessary.
In fact, eliminating wildlife is not necessarily the best way to increase returns on a farm. For example, if you want to get more sheep to market, shelter from wind in early Spring is probably going to be more important to you than killing all the wolves, bears and cougars in your area.
If your goal is increasing your corn crop, a focus on improved crop rotation, tilling, planting, and bug control will produce higher yields than shooting out the rare nuisance bear.
Google Thomas Brodhecker, for example, the NJ farmer quoted in that article, and you will find that he has about 700 acres in corn, hay and wheat. If bears are a problem for Mr. Brodhecker, he can change crops pretty easily, or he can plant more corn to compensate. It’s not like he doesn’t already change crop covers from time to time for other (non-bear) reasons, is it?
As for welfare policies, I am probabkly less conservative than you. For example, I am not necessarily opposed to some forms of welfare for the very old, the very sick, and the very young who have no other options or means of income.
But welfare for the rich? Welfare for corporate fact cats, Wall Street traders, and millionaire ranchers and farmers? I am opposed to that!
Yet, huge amounts of money are going to these groups, aren’t they?
Yet we do not hear too much about welfare ranching and welfare farming in this country, do we? Maybe we should!
Why are we, the American people, LOSING money on grazing and timber leases on public lands?
And why are we paying hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of subsidizies to a New Jersey farmer who is sitting on many many millions of dollars worth of land?
And why, pray tell, are we now supposed to extend special dispensation to this farmer to kill bears which he claims are stealing “his” profits. His profits???
You will pardon me if I think that since America’s taxpayers have already pumped over $180,000 worth of welfare into this man’s pockets, those bears are not his to decide the fate of, but the people of New Jersey and the nation. A good case can be made that these bears have already been bought and paid for.
For certain, I do not want to hear any whining from a millionaire “welfare farmer” about how he needs special dispensation to kill bears so he can get even richer. Give me a break!
As for generalized bear-hunting in New Jersey, I am not opposed to it.
There is nothing wrong with hunting bears in New Jersey if the Fish and Game folks say the population is up and can sustain a harvest. We hunt bear in Pennslyvania, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, and West Virginiia without a problem and without a moment’s drama.
That said, we also do not beat our chests about bears endangering us in the woods, nor do we invent a bunch of nonsense about bears being big crop destroyers.
Here in Virginia, we know what bears are: large animals that can be sustainably harvested and which provide a small economic engine for houndsmen and sport hunters.
That is enough.
We are not reaching for make-weight arguments which sound silly and which cannot be supported by science.
Which brings me around to the statement at the top of the post in which you write that:
“People are in danger, they are losing property and now farmers are losing tens of thousands of dollars from damage caused by bears destroying their crops and livestock. Needless to say, farmers are angry and are threatening to take matters into their own hands.”
I think this is the kind of hot talk that is far removed from the truth and which actually harms the cause you espouse (and with which I am not opposed).
Bears are not going to eat us when we go into the woods (they will run from a 20 pound terrier!), and millionaire farmers already sucking on the teat of Uncle Sam are not going to go bankrupt from them either.
Other states with bear hunting seasons have not won their bear hunting seasons with arguments like these, and I doubt they will work in New Jersey either.
Make bear hunting in New Jersey about ethical hunting (i.e. no jelly-donut barrels), and make it about sustainable science-based bear harvest and economics (working with nature rather than against it), and you may yet get a small season in the Pine Barrens and a few other obvious locations. Make it about dominating nature because you are scared of the woods and want to save a few acres of subsidized corn and you will lose.
P.
Patrick
Park your Hover and mount your broom. It’s time for sweeping change.
Welfare Farmers have been costing us tax payers for years. But the entitlement society that surrounds us encourages the abuses. Much like the Corzine run state of NJ penalize some groups of it’s citizens to appease other groups. What’s the big deal anyway? Why not get together with other like minded individuals and buy this guys farm and give it to the bears.
He might take the money move west and buy a ranch in Idaho. Then he can sell that property to like minded individuals to give to the wolf. Get my drift? So keep paying your dues!
He can then afford to buy a BIG Hacienda in Mexico and shoot anything and everything he pleases. All on your dime.
WELFARE FOR FARMERS
Farm subsidies are being granted to farmers who don’t need them — due to vague laws and poorly trained federal employees, according to a report by the General Accounting Office
The GAO’s report revealed:
* Some 30 percent of the approximately 1,000 applications reviewed for subsidies each year are going to those who are technically ineligible.
* Subsidies cost taxpayers $114 billion between 1995 and 2002, Subsidies are expected to increase to $190 billion over the next 10 years.
* Environmental conservation subsidies — which pay farmers not to cultivate land — cost taxpayers $14 billion and result in higher food prices.
A 2004 poll revealed that 77 percent of Americans favor giving subsidies to farmers, ostensibly out of concern for the struggling family farm, but a watchdog group reveals that 71 percent of subsidies go to the top 10 percent of subsidy recipients, which are typically large farms.
I can’t speak for others but I personally do not support Welfare for Farmers
Oh then were all in agreement! A Dingo ate my baby
The stats above are likely true, yet when the predators munch all their own game then the forest will become a more dangerous place. Wolves enter my camp now, upon realizing I’m there they leave, if they got so much game in the woods why the hell are they interested in my horse and mule. Once desperate enough the wolves will attack man,Http://www.wolvesinrussia.com ( Wills book on wolves killing humans in Russia is no camp fire fairy tale ) we are not at that stage yet, but it is coming, no doubt about it, in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming, but especially in Idaho as our ungulates are getting pounded, decimated, by wolves. New Mexico is hurting as well. Idaho livestock kills by wolves are in the thousands $$$$ annually. Walk into Idahos Frank Church Wilderness alone with a back pack and spend a week, see how you think when you get out of there. See how you like the wolves following you around watching you. Take a hammock. 35 years packing the Sawtooth/Frank Church/Wind Rivers Wilderness areas via horse and foot, I got no camp fire fairy tales for ya. Just decimated ungulates and wolves in our face.
Greg, I agree with you in part and disagree in part.
Where I agree is that where wolves come on to private property or near human settlement they are going to have to be shot. No apologies there.
Where you and I are going to disagree is on the Frank Church Wilderness.
To be clear, your business is to make a PRIVATE property off of PUBLIC lands.
You do not own your means of production, and your business is subsidized by tax dollars. You have no special rights in the Frank Church Wilderness.
And, just to make the point clear, the land was not set aside as the Greg Farber full-employment act, but as land where God’s Original Design could be left unaltered. What made the Sawtooth/Frank Church/Wind Rivers Wilderness areas is not you or I, but fire and water, wolf and beetle bore, and the hand of time.
And yes, I know the land well; I have spent months at a time walking it, and I have no fear of the forest.
But perhaps I am more comfortable with assumed risk than you are.
When you go into a wilderness area, you know that if you break a leg, there is no helicopter to get you out. If your horse gets a gash, there is no veterinarian there to set things right. If you go into a place called the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness, you know the score.
You have accepted the risk.
What you may not have accpeted yet is how tenuous your position is on that land. A VERY good case can be made that there should be no private gain by commercial operators such as yourself on publics lands, especially wilderness lands.
Why should the public subsidize private gain off of public wilderness lands? The answer of course, is that they probably shouldn’t, but so long as they are light on the land, close the gates, and tip the hat to the owner (the American public) they are probably going to be tolerated.
In that sense, the American public is a bit like the farmer who allows folks to come on to his or her property to shoot a few deer. The hunters have no rights, but the farmer is going to tolerate them so long as they do no harm. If that hunter starts to act as if he has a say-so on how the farm is managed, however, look out! Posting land is pretty darn easy and more of it is being done every day because hunters do not understand they are supposed to say THANK YOU and close the gates.
Like it or not, the folks that own the public lands on which you make your private profits are owned by people in New Jersey, California, New York, and Connecticut — to name a few of the less hunting-hospitable parts of the country.
Across this Great Nation, 80 percent of the taxpayers (and even a larger percentage of the taxes) come from urban and suburban residents.
You do not have to like this; those are simply the facts.
So too is the fact that wolves are here to stay, and more grizzlies are coming. They are coming and they are staying because the OWNERS OF THE LAND want them there.
And you are not an owner of the land.
You are the person that is tolerated on the land only because the true owners of the land — millions of people in New Jersey, California, New York, and Connecticut — do not know you are there, and the local farm manager (the USFS) has said “what the hell” for now.
If you push to shoot wolves in the Frank Church Wilderness, however, you are going to be out of business pretty damn fast, as you will wake up the folks in New Jersey, California, New York, and Connecticut and they will simply ban commercial folks like you from Wilderness areas, and ban National Forest grazing as well (a money-loser already) if that will make things a bit simpler (and cheaper) on the management side.
As for fear in the forest, if you are scared of it leave. If the assumed risk is too much, get out. Not all lands are for all people all the time. The land can change, and so too can people. If, after 35 years, there is too much wild in the Frank Church Wilderness, I undertsand. Maybe it’s time to send your saddle home.
But I will bet not.
I will bet you love it and the wolves are really only a very small nuisance and an even smaller cost.
When push comes to shove, I will bet that you are going to cowboy up and respect the land as much as you respect your place on it. And you will assume the risk and be proud to be part of a heritage older than campfire stories told on the pages of Outdoor Life. Your land is the same land as Jim Bridger’s. This is God’s Origial Design, not mere landscape and petting zoo. That is not something to rail against; that is something to be damned proud of.
P.
Under the illegal U.N. Charter treatise signed by George H.W. Bush at the World Conference in Rio (Agenda 21) Never ratified by Congress, due to the fact that they legally can not do so. Your indoctrinated concept would be correct.
Under the guise of the never properly ratified 14th amendment in 1868 which stole states sovereign rights as seperate Nations of one another with the federal government under them acting with no authority. And as well stole the de-jure sovereign status from the individual facading the freedom of the black man which actually created equal subjects (slaves). Which in all truth was the reason the civil war was fought and a president was assassinated via fomentation on both sides of that contest by one singular party. (Vatican) You would be correct.
As well the truth and proper research of the 16th amendment never ratified, in fact I have those ratification documents here from every state government archive proving the ratification process was done improperly and failed to meet the guidelines as set forth in our Constitution thus the “tax system ” base on “voluntary compliance” is a fraud. As well those Federal Reserve Notes are backed by nothing and you know it. Also the IRS collects Interest from us, it is legally not a tax. Now this is all easly proven, Im not going to type ten million legal documents on here to prove it.
Bottom line those tax-payers from timbucktwo don’t own shit, they dont even own the land they live on right now, or the house they live in, or the car they drive. The bankers who tricked them with those BILLS called FRNs which are 100% credit own it all and always did. So I agree I am trespassing on fraudalently stolen Wilderness lands used as collateral by theives in Congress to borrow more privately owned currency from the privately owned by Europeans “Federal Reserve Bank.” So they certainly do not have a say in what goes on in the Frank Church.
I will keep on fishin in there even if the bastards put up signs telling me to stay off, which they are going to do, and none of your reasons will be the reasons why they do it. WHY, because they lied. Con men in Con gress Conned Americans out of their Nation.
I will still sleep on the ground, wolves don’t scare me, they annoy me at best, The elk are still decimated, the deer are too. FACT. The wolf program is failing big time.
Since all your bunkum beliefs are based on illegal Legislative Frauds I will still only recognize the Constitution and the Bill of NATURAL RIGHTS the Founders intended for this Nation, and Gods Natural Rights 1st which are the same thing. until the occuping forces of this nation acting illegaly hang me.
Idaho’s forest’s belong to IDAHOANS. Period. Congress has no legal authority to interfere in the states lands or wild life management period, they side stepped the Constitution via the NEVER RATIFIED 17th amendment and the never voted on U/N charter by them or us to force illegal UnAmerican, Un Constitutional foreign treatises, which Thomas Jefferson and James Monroe specifically warned us they would try to do if we didn’t watch them CON men real close. well they done it.
It don’t mean I gotta abide by it.
” We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of Ordinary Americans…” Bill Clinton ( USA TODAY, 11 March 1993, page 2A).
” It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance.” President George H.W. Bush addressing the general assembly of known communists of the U.N. February 1, 1992.
Spoken like the true communist traitors they both are.
” Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse ? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about ? Maurice Strong Head of the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio De Janeiro. The same summit where G.H.W. Signed the treatise of Agenda 21.
Are you enjoying that collapse ?
Now I’m all for looking out for the Planet, the forest’s I love, ALL the animals in balance, under proper care and management which the agencies called the Forest Service, FWS, Department of Interior using the ESA, are doing wrong and illegaly via the U.N. Charter.
Now maybe you think we need foreigners managing America because you might think their smarter than your self, I don’t. Also I can see they will make us a third world nation soon, with the two parties calling themselves Dems and Repubs working in concert to decieve us all.
Actually we have one party leading this nation via deception, it’s known as the Communist party.
That said, I am a hunter of wild game via camera and gun, hunter of medicinal plants roots herbs and such, trained in survival. Historian, legal researcher. Constitutionalist and Bible believer. Man will never fix this screwed up mess, only God will. Also I have always firmly beleived in if you can’t get it done your self you do not deserve it, as in paying a commercial guide to take people hunting, I have always guided myself, packed myself, never needed one holding my hand like a big brother pretending he is god.
That Cowboyed up enough for ya.
WOW!
Think I’ll sign on to this, just to see where it’s heading…
Personally, I’ve never seen a vote on whether or not we want wolves back or not. Maybe my representative has? No, I don’t think he has either…….so how are the wolves someone’s from California, or New Jersey…or mine? Did I miss the election?
Seems to me, PBurns, that you are a little confused about who owns what wildlife…first the bears are not the owners, and now the wolves ARE the owners property…so which is it?
If I have an interest in these wolves, then I want my share back in Canada…how many is that? I’ve cowboyed my share, as well, does that make any difference to you?
A dingo ate my black helicopter. 9-11 Truth forever! God bless Lyndon Larouche! Let’s ferret out ZOG and track them to their lair! You betcha’ dog gone on it! JBS forver! I can see Moscow from my front porch. Only Robert Welch knows The Truth. Proctor and Gamble are owned by satanists. Kenneth, what’s the frequency? Point made!!
P
Now you’ve gone and done it! And all it took was a little push…gee, mister, can we put you back together again?
I spent twelve years riding in black helicopters ass wipe. Your just like all the snot nosed liberal SNAFU left wingers nation wide with their head up their back door eating the same shit over and over again. ( You might want to go see a real military base and look at the black choppers parked their boy). Ooh, scary.
Try some Congressional Globes, Annals, Records of Congress on for size, PUSSNUTS. Thousands of them, my collection is from day one into 1908 and counting. You got nuthin. JBS is a Rockefeller creation disinfo society, just like all the other disinfo you smoke.
John Birch had nothing to do with it either. If you werent a know-nothing you would know that. He died in China fighting communism.
Name calling and conspiracy theorist accusations are the process of people unable to counter an argument they start when answered with facts, once countered they either run or come back with comedy in their opinion and run any how. An in-effective failed tool of the political NOBAMA fools other wise known as left wingers indoctrinated with communist ideaology as Paul Burns last two comments prove.
Were a Village…..yea right.
Yeah, JBS is run by the commie Jews. I always thought so. Mark in Michigan says so, and he knows. And fuck that Paul Burns guy. He never gets any of his facts right. He’s not just a bear f*#@r, he’s a BLACK bear f*#@r. Pinko, United Natios-hugging, towel-owning bastard.
Lydnon LaRouche forever! Remember Ruby Ridge!
Drink Ruby Red grapfruit juice to show your support.
Semper Fido!
P.
So after all the sweet, longwinded tirades, you finally get down to the nitpicken sarcasm…..hummmm, makes you wonder what the motive was all along…
It’s always interesting just along what lines sarcasm runs…I noticed Ruby Ridge, “I can see Moscow from my front porch”, funny how those are giveaways to your political aspirations…
And how you tie your anger together gives me an idea of what was under your slick exterior….Too bad you responded so easily and so quickly to any threat to your demigod and elitist positions..you almost had me going there…thinking you had some merit to your arguments…but not enough! Especially when you want someone to swallow the whole pill!
Glad you blew your cool, mister, I was thinking you might have something of value….not that I knew what it was…but you’re slick..not as slick as Willie, though!
One thing I learned is that defendable truths require no outburst of emotion or apologies, they stand on their own merit!
Right, LOL.
I put out a coherent piece about how other states surrounding New Jersey have WON wildlife management arguments (rather than lose them).
I pointed out that bees kill more people than bears and lions and wolves COMBINED, and that millionaire farmers who have collected over $180,000 worth of welfare from us taxpayers should not be crying boo-hoo because a few bears ate some corn.
So what came back in resonse?
A paranoid bit from someone who either sounds scared of the woods (”Lions, wolves and bears, Oh my!!”) or who has a habit of manufacturing fear in the woods as a way of making himself sound a lot more masculine (”Tarzan is so brave!!”)
Either way, one thing is for sure: Greg is someone who (apparently) cannot stand on his own two legs and make his own income using his own means of production on his own land.
Fair enough.
Not everyone can be entirely self-sustaining through their own contributions.
But recognize that welfare is welfare, even if it comes in many forms.
The American people are LOSING money when people make like Greg Farber make private profits off of public lands. And that is Mr. Farber’s business model, as he himself admits.
We (the American people) are deficit-financing Greg Farber’s pack-mule business and instead of a note of appreciation, we are all being damned as crypto-fasicts or some such nonsense.
Nice! There’s a good opening argument designed to win friends and influence people in Congress, in state legislatures, in courts, and with Administrative agencies.
Apparently Mr. Farber is not happy to simple live within the rules governing Wilderness areas. fROM WHAT thinks thinks they should be changed to accomodate his business model.
Now to me that sounds a bit like a crack whore proclaiming her right to turn tricks out of public housing while demading more free parking spaces for her clients.
Even if the American people are going to grudgingly allow public housing (they do), and even if in some locations (like Nevada) they may allow prostitution, I am not sure we need to expand the parking lot to accomodate the business model. Surely there are limits to how much power we are going to give the parasites who are making their private profits off of publicly-owned means of production?
Now when I raised the issue, did I get back a coherent answer? I did not. I got back an incoherent rant about the United Nations, the Constitution, and various stream-of-consciousness stuff spewed straight from the mind of a paranoid lunatic. From what I can gather, Greg Farber believes there is no legitimate government in the U.S. It’s all a big conspiracy, and never mind that we live in the most representative democracy in the world with the best wildlife managers on the planet. No, he wants to jump on the crazy train. He rode those black helicopters for 12 years!! Wooo-woo. Let’s go!
Now my positition is always the same: If you have an express ticket to the crazy train, I am more than willing to go there with you. A dingo ate my black helicopter. Let’s overthrow the imperial ZOG in Washington. Starbucks is run by Coffee Koffi. Fluoridation of the water is a communist trick, and there’s nowhere in the Consititution that says we have to pay taxes.
That said, there are limits.
If you really do not know how our public lands are managed, how Congress works, who runs the Dept. of Interior, how money is appropriated, or how to change law, I cannot help you. You will have to help yourself. I recommend spending some time on Wikipedia or buying a few books on how the U.S. Congress, state legislatures, federal administrative agencies, and our court systems work.
If you do not know what year the Wilderness Act was singed into law, who Bob Marshall was, or who Frank Church was, I cannot help you.
Willfull ignorance is a disease that cannot be cured by someone else. It is, like change, an inside job.
P.
P.
Right, LOL.
I put out a coherent piece about how other states surrounding New Jersey have WON bear hunting arguments (rather than lose them).
I pointed out that bees kill more people than bears and lions and wolves COMBINED, and that millionaire farmers who have collected over $180,000 worth of welfare from taxpayers should not be crying boo-hoo because a few bears ate some of their corn.
This paranoid “fear of the woods” crap is old, and so is the cries of poverty from millioaire land owners sucking off of America’s teats.
So what came back in response?
A paranoid bit from someone who either sounds scared of the woods (”Lions, wolves and bears, Oh my!!”) or who has a habit of manufacturing fear in the woods as a way of making himself sound a lot more masculine (”Tarzan is so brave!!”) for walking around in the Frank Church.
OK.
Now what’s funny here is that Greg comes right out and says he is someone who cannot stand on his own two legs and make his own income using his own means of production on his own land. Of course he puts it different. He simply says he makes his living by pocketing private profits he makes by mule packing on public lands. And, just to be clear, we the American people who are deficit-financing Greg Farber’s pack-mule business are not going to get a note of appreciation for that access. No. Instead, we are all going to be damned as crypto-fasicts or some such nonsense.
Right! That’s a good opening argument. LOL.
Apparently Mr. Farber is not happy to simple live within the rules governing Wilderness Aeas. From what I can gather he thinks these long-standing rules (and many others no doubt) should be changed to accomodate his parasite-on-public-lands business model.
OK.
But to be honest with you, that sounds a bit like a crack whore proclaiming her right to turn tricks out of public housing while demading the state put in more free parking spaces for her clients.
Even if the American people are going to grudgingly allow public housing (we do), and even if in some locations (such as Nevada) they allow prostitution, I am not sure we need to expand the parking lot to accomodate the crack whores in public housing.
Call me a conservative (I have been called it before), but I think there are limits as to how much power we should be giving to those who are making private profits from public resources.
That includes public housing.
And it inlcudes public lands.
Now when I raised this very legitimate issue, did I get back a coherent answer? I did not. I got back an incoherent rant about the United Nations, the Constitution, and various stream-of-consciousness stuff spewed straight from the mind of a paranoid lunatic on the far edge of Ron Paul or Lyndon LaRouche.
From what I can gather, Greg Farber believes there is no legitimate government in the U.S. It’s all a big conspiracy, and never mind that we live in the most representative democracy in the world with the best wildlife managers on the planet.
No, he wants to jump on the crazy train. He rode those black helicopters for 12 years he want us to know!!
Wooo-woo. Let’s go!
If folks like Greg have an express ticket to the crazy train, I am more than willing to jump on there with them.
A dingo ate my black helicopter.
Let’s overthrow the imperial ZOG in Washington.
Starbucks is run by Coffee Anan.
Fluoridation of the water is a communist trick.
There’s nowhere in the Consititution that says we have to pay taxes.
I LOVE the crazy train. It’s the best ride in town. I will ride it going left or right, up the mountain or town.
I love the crazy train! It’s so exciting!
That said, if you *don’t* want to ride the crazy train, we don’t have to ride. I certainly did not start on that ride, did I?
I am willing to have rational fact-based diccussions. That said, there are limits.
You see, if you really do not know how our public lands are managed, how Congress works, or runs the Dept. of Interior, I cannot help you. If you really do not know how money is appropriated, or how to change U.S. law, I really cannot help you.
You will have to help yourself.
I recommend spending some time on Wikipedia or buying a few books on how the U.S. Congress, state legislatures, federal administrative agencies, and our court systems work.
I know this stuff, but I cannot give it to you. That’s not how you learn stuff. Knowledge is not cold medicine that can be spoon fed to you; it’s something you have to get off the shelf yourself.
If you are really serious about either wildlife or wild lands management or legislation, you need to know the basics. If you do not know how a law is made or how a budget is authorized, or how rules and regulations are promulgated, then I would start there.
If you do not know what an EIS is or what the the ESA is, you might look that up too. If you do not know what year the Wilderness Act was signed into law, or who Bob Marshall was, or who Frank Church was (wilderness areas are named after both of them), I would look into that too. While you are at it, I would look into the history of the Pittman-Robertson Act, Ding Darling, Aldo Leopold, and the Weeks Act. All of this is basic stuff if you want to talk about wildlife and wild lands management.
But first look into how laws and budgets and regulations are made.
P.
Do you think Bea has anything to do with this? I hope not. Please Bea come back!!
Is CNBC the crazy train ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rBX3iTzyho LMAO…Wiki has been proven to be EDITED by the government, the Roman Catholic Church, and the CIA. Wiki is worthless. Whats wrong stupid can’t you locate Congressional Globes, Annals, and Records of Congress, or your Congressional Library.
And what the hell do my out doors adventures funded by me for my pleasure have to do with profit loss or gain…You need to get a clue Patrick. The World is not as simple as you seem to think it is. My back packing and horse packing is not a business, stop assuming things.
Hey Jes just one word narcissism. Only not from looking in the mirror. If that’s possible.
Not that I can see spending time rebutting your third tirade, but just, to whit, since you are comparing whores to hunters, I’ll give you a jot of what I think of you and your attitudes..
First of all you have a patronizing attitude that puts you in a category all to yourself..one I can’t stand…A condescending put-down that has no good in itself….You condemn yourself by your own hand.
If you are so patently perfect, why are you flying off the handle of sanity?
To return to this forum with more of the same crap is insane in itself! Who do you think you are? The demi-god of whore hunters? I have no use for your intended purposes…as a sounding board for ineloquent and factious “lecturing”…Thanks anyway, Paul…maybe you need another forum for you lecturing. Where someone appreciates your own brand of insolence….and arrogance!
LMAO, he is a funny boy, musta scared him with to much reality, I messed up that link, go look, its funny in a way, maybe a Freudian slip by the media perhaps, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rBX3iTzyh0 The most brilliant thing the devil did was trick people into believing he was not real….
It just goes to show you, George, what craziness can do to people when they have no control over their own God given intelligence..intelligence can be a burden unless it is in God’s hands…once we take God out of the equation, it runs rampant and hurts the benefactor as well as it’s intended victims…
If you look at his ride on the crazy train, you can see he was on it all along…that’s why his arguments were not complete in themselves…even though they were certainly long enough, and reflected competence…his conclusions are not logical because he is not logical…what a waste of competence!
Damn, I wish I could type all my thoughts that fast, though…Naw, I’m better off, taking my time, and going over it twice..(it takes me that long to type it!) Maybe he has a secretary…naw, he wouldn’t want a secretary to read that!
He will make it some day Jes, all will, they just don’t see it yet, they don’t want to. John 4:42 tells us “Christ is the Savior of the world” Not some of the people, all of them. I didn’t believe it once myself. I shouldn’t get ticked at him for being in denial of truth. Now a buddy in D.C. e-mailed me another globe to read so Im going to get to it. Congressional Record—Senate page 3434 1908 March 17 Senate Bill 3023 Amendement of National Banking. 70 pages.
Heres one folks should read too, Congressional Senate, 64th Congress, 1st Session Volume 53 part 7 page 6781, 25 April 1916. It is the discussion about the Treaty of Verona, which proves the Vatican, led by the jesuit order set out to destroy all POPULAR GOVERNMENTS.
The village idiots around us obviously don’t care.
Yeah, Jes, we’ll ALL get to heaven, just like it says in John 4:41.
Even those stinking Catholics are who trying to overthrow all the POPULAR GOVERNMENTS. (And thank God they are not trying to overthrown the UNPOPULAR governments, eh)?
But I have a question for Greg: Are you sure all those stinking Mormons and Muslims and Jews are going to make it into heaven too?
And how about those BLACK bears (wink, wink) if you know what I mean? You think they are going to let BLACK bears into heaven?
Dogs are getting to heaven forr sure — the movie told us that. But BLACK bears? Woah!! Who is making the rules here, eh?
Are Bhuddists going to be let in? How about cannibals? How about sodomites and television preachers who are sodomites? How about cross dressers? How about Democrats? How about cross dressers who are Democrats? How about Communists? Hippies? Lesbians (please, just so we can watch)? Does the Pope get in too? And how about those Roman soldier that killed Christ? How about Pontius Pilate? Cause if EVERYONE is getting in, I’m thinking it’s going to be get a little crowded.
But Greg knows it’s not going to get crowded. You see, he’s pulling our leg a littl here. John 4:41 simply says “And many more believed because of his own word.” It does not say a think about everyone getting into heaven. Ha! Greg, you are such a kidder — I love Bible scholars like you with the gify of humor. Thank you!
And thank you too for giving us video clips to explain to us that the stock market crashed was due to the Illuminati. Those damn Jesuits again. F*#$uing Catholics. Thank God you are here to set us straight. And when I say I “thank God,” I want to be clear that I am thanking the CHRISTIAN God, not that one those damn Catholics are praying to — those damn Catholics who are all hell bent on taking over the world and undermining the POPULAR GOVERNMENT.
No, I mean the Southern Baptist God as heard on WAMU on the Stained Glass Bluegrass show on Sunday morning. That God. There is no other, I am sure you will agree.
Greg, can you tell us a little more about all those black helicopters you spent 12 years in? Did you spend all your time flying around in Idaho waiving to Helen Chenoweth? Or were you doing “secret ops” that you can’t tell us about because it was super secret stuff?
And THANK YOU for letting me know that wikipedia is “proven to be EDITED by the government, the Roman Catholic Church, and the CIA.” I had no idea.
And can you us more about the UN thing “signed by George H.W. Bush at the World Conference in Rio”? That sounds very interesting. Please give us a few links. I want to know more.
And thank goodness you are here to point us all to “Congressional Globes, Annals, and Records of Congress, or your Congressional Library.”
Could you help a poor ignorant on that, though? What is that? Can you give us a link or an address or something? And are you sure it’s not actually something being published by the Zionist Occupational Government or the damn Catholic Jesuits, or the CIA? ZOG is everywhere, as we both know (and so are the others!)
In closing Greg, I want to say THANK YOU. I know I would be lost without you.
I cannot imagine how confused I would be right now if you were actually in the Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness with your pack mules fending off the wolves. Thank you for not going out now, in the middle of the hunting season. Thank you for shepherding us to Jesus Christ and away from Catholics and the Jews and the Mormons and the Illuminati. Thank you for flying the Big Black Helicopter of righteous illumination. And, above all, thanks for getting everything right and correct, unlike that asshole Paul Burns.
Above all, and especially, thank you for enlightening us about Black Bears in New Jersey.
In Jesus’ name,
PBurns
Hey Greg today was an important day in History! Churchill, Roosevelt & Stalin:
The United Nations (UN) Charter was ratified on October 24, 1945, bringing the international body officially into existence. The term “United Nations” was first used in the 1942 Declaration by United Nations, when representatives of twenty-six nations pledged to continue fighting against the Axis powers (Germany, Italy, and Japan) in World War II.
From August to October 1944, representatives of the United States, United Kingdom, China, and the U.S.S.R. met at Dumbarton Oaks, an estate in Washington, D.C., to formulate plans for an organization to foster international cooperation after the war. The resulting Dumbarton Oaks proposals, along with provisions agreed upon by Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin at the Yalta Conference in February 1945, formed the basis for the United Nations Conference on International Organization.
In April 1945, delegates from fifty countries met in San Francisco to draw up the final charter of the United Nations. It was signed on June 26 and ratified on October 24, 1945 by a majority of the other signatories. Poland, not represented at the conference, signed the charter later and became one of the original fifty-one member countries. Three years later, on December 10, 1948, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
It’s the SIRIUS Dog News Network rant hour. LMAO. and YAWN.
Funny thing about those U.N. Universal Human Rights, the Animals got more rights than we do.
You must be Born Again given a new heart.Be a new Creation
You must be one of Gods elect from before time.
You must believe in Jesus Christ that he died and came back to life.
You must believe in the Sovereignty of God.
You must believe the Bible is Gods divine word given to man.
No Man Gets To The Father Without Going Through Jesus.
There is only one way!
There is no other way to get to heaven
Your Quoting the Bible OUT OF CONTEXT!
If you require assistance in the proper Hermanutics of the Bible I can provide several resources
you may want to start here: http://www.crosstv.com
I thought you might get a laugh out of that UN tidbit I shook my head at how far removed it’s become from it’s inception. Much like our beloved USA land of freedom and hope!
Man’s words mean nothing
Funny thing about them bibles, I have 12 different bibles, my choice is the 1611KJV, I am aware that others reword and relocate or twist words from one to the other, for me the 1611KJV with Strongs/A.E. Knochs concordance do the break downs which I personally trust. I like how knoch Rightly Divide The Word of Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 ” Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.”
Oh well NOBAMA is no hope I guess for fools.
WAMU Radio ??????
WAMU is a public radio station that services the greater Washington, D.C. metropolitan area. The station broadcasts on 88.5 FM; online at wamu.org; and on HD Radio at 88.5, Channels 1, 2, and 3. WAMU is on-air 24 hours a day. It is licensed to American University and its studios are located near the campus in northwest Washington, D.C. WAMU’s HD Channel 2 broadcasts WAMU’s BluegrassCountry, which is also available at bluegrasscountry.org.; Channel 3 broadcasts content from WTMD, an AAA station in Towson, Maryland as well as other NPR programming and BBC World programming. This change became effective on September 17, 2007.
WAMU is a National Public Radio affiliate, carrying content from NPR, American Public Media, Public Radio International and the BBC World Service. In addition, WAMU produces its own interview and bluegrass music shows, including The Diane Rehm Show, Hot Jazz Saturday Night, The Kojo Nnamdi Show, and Bluegrass Overnight.
Mr. PBurns, we WILL all get to heaven, “and every knee shall bend and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord”. And no matter how you rant and rage, it will do you no good to say otherwise. For your judgement is as sure as mine, and every fool and every wise man will know on that day that he is but dust in the hand of his Maker.
Your words are as mush in His hand, and He, as well as I, despise arrogance. And as haughty as you are proclaiming yourself to be, you should know God and be both grateful and appreciative for what you have and not look upon anyone as any less or better than yourself. If you have not learned this lesson, than you are learning at the foot of the wrong teacher.
You may be thinking of your own use of words to hurt, because you have been hurt…and you may feel as though you want to take out your anger on others, but believe me, you are only hurting yourself. And making others look down on you, not in fear or disrespect, but in dismay and shock that someone with such capability could find such anger and revenge in their heart as to put it into a personal vendetta against anyone who says or thinks differently than you. I could well put you down in the same manner, but not only would it take me longer to type, it would do me no good either. There is a point where you have crossed the line both in good manners and good spirit and you should stop yourself and ask yourself why. Is it worth it for you continue or should you leave before you are asked?
I wonder if you have a personal problem that you need to tell someone…if so please do, and even though this is not the place to say it, I think you need to talk to someone you know and respect and admire, and maybe someone who knows Christ well in their heart and being….I wish I knew someone to tell you to go to, but I have a close friendship with Christ, inside of me, and He is the only one that truly knows me…I’m sure that he’s there for you, too, and all you need to do is to believe it and talk to Him, who is within you…believe me, he is there somewhere, where you will not find Him hollering, or pushing or shoving, or telling you how to run your life…He has given it to you as a gift, not as a directive. And He is available, if you listen closely enough. I wish you His love and knowledge and peace, and you will find them all in His presence…..
American University: now THAT’S AN “ELITE” World Class Institution. no really the whole world come here for enlightenment
Hey Jes, I thought Greg said he was an atheist? Do you think were getting a convert? Watta ya say Greg for the Glory of God!!
I always believed in creation and one God, my problem was anger at him for letting the world be this way and I turned my back on him. I studied the History of American Constitutional Law, and or Common law, as well as Roman Civil which we are under now via Admiralty Maritime and Equity Merchant Law. Studied the Magna Carta, British Common Law. Started researching and collecting antique books from Europe and America, suppressed books, it is hard to believe that in America there are suppressed books and documents, the harder to find the harder I hunted for them. Nothing happens by chance, I just wanted to know why and how and what for. Any talk of God Angered so bad I would never talk to that person again. Then several years ago after a lot of research into Vatican history i realized man can not be doing this evil on his own for 6000 years and it is all the same familys and blood lines doing it…from Egypt to date. Out of 100 Patricks I get 10 to stop and look and they change. Thats why I do it.
Good for you. The real trick is to not get mad.
God uses evil for good. in his own time and his own plans.
Look at Job:
Naked I came from my mothers womb and Naked I will depart The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away may the lord be praised.
This is what Job said after the Devil (the world) took away everything he owned and loved. I mean Everything.
In all this Job did not sin by charging god with wrongdoing.
When i’m feeling beat up I read the chapter of Job.
You know, In my life things could be allot worse. By now I could be dead, tried, and burning for my transgressions. but for the Grace of God I was given a chance to repent and do good works.
You quoted 2 Timothy 15 As a Born Again Berean Christian this command of God is my goal. To be a workman approved!
I strive not to complain (Some days that’s tough)but that’s where my belief in the sovereign plan of God makes me satisfied with my station in life. I’m in his hands for what ever he chooses for me to do.
Just one last thought: 1 Timothy 15
Here is a trustworth saying that deserves full acceptance:
Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners-of whom I’m the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal,immortal,invisible the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
These words from Saul now Paul (filled with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit)
How would you explain away God’s use of this man?
A sworn enemy of Christians! He was present and egged on the Stoning to death of Simon. (who’s only crime was preaching the words of Jesus) Simon was filled with the Holy Spirit, one of Jesus own elected followers. One of the first members of the Gentile Church. What’s changed in 2 thousand years? Christians are still being Stoned.
Saul hunted down and imprisoned (with Zeal) any Christian. (I’m sure you know all this). God chose Saul! a sinner! made him a new being, changed his heart.
He became Born Again as Paul who authored most of the New Testament, the new Gentile Church, which is called the Bride of Christ.
I’m just a dirty useless sinner myself! but if God saw fit to elect me, to show his grace to me, I am in no way going to refuse this free gift. (Even if I thought I could) I don’t know yet what Gods plans for me are (I’m no Paul) but whatever, I’m positive it’s only for his Glory.
I for one am not complaining!
It’s getting late I got my apostles mixed up it was Stephen who was stoned.
Hey Greg. How old are you?
The reason I ask is that I thought you were a grown man ((12 years flying black helicopters!) but now I have my doubts after reading your rich fantasy piece about wolves keeping you up a tree for days (hey, I thought you weren’t scared of them?} which starts off with your DAD dropping you off at a roadhead in 2001. Your DAD? Dad is still driving you around? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.
Then I find out what you backpack into the wood for food: collard green leaves and onions, a can of sardine, a sack of apples and oranges, hemp seeds (hemps seeds??!!) etc.
What hippie store are you getting hemp seeds from Greg?
And since when does anyone who carries stuff on their bakc into the woods carry low-value foods like collars greens and onions? And who carries a tin can of anything, much less a sack of apples and oranges with them? Something wrong here!
And since elk season starts tomorrow in Idaho, shouldn’t you really be up in hunting camp scouting out that big 6 x 6?
Or is that delivered on the Black Helicopters you rode for 12 years? You know, the ones you are riding while also living life as a “life long Mountain man” (your description) who also happens to have an internet connection and who is not in deer camp, and who is also an expert in “American Constitutional Law, and or Common law, as well as Roman Civil which we are under now via Admiralty Maritime and Equity Merchant Law. Studied the Magna Carta, British Common Law. Started researching and collecting antique books from Europe and America”??
And can you explain to us all how the Jesuits are controlling the BLACK bears in New Jersey, and how the Vatican is controlling the Fish and Wildlife Service too?
In Jesus’ name,
PBurns
Hey here’s a clue for ya, Black Hawk Down, most Apache’s are black. ooh, scarey! There ya go, have some fun with that while you fight for your illusion. YAWN.
PBurns is still making an ass of himself….what else is new?
Probably stayed up all nite thinking of ways to try to make us think he was the world’s longest crapteller…Guess what? You won, PBurns….you get the award..a big crock! With your name on it! Aren’t you happy? Now get a good nites sleep. We’ll send you the award in yesterday’s mail.
LMAO. Oh shucky darns I guess I must pull another Congressional Globe outta my hat of tricks, oh my, or one of those imaginary “Black Helicopters”. heh heh. As far as the bears in in New Jersey or Atlanta Georgia or where ever, just shoot one, stuff it, and stand it in the kitchen next to the fridge, who gives a dump. Congressional Record page A3220, Statement by Carl B. Rix. “Which government are we under, the u.s. constitutional one, or the united nations one ? More off the shelf factual documents for our Liberal Fascist keyboard commando Patricia Burnt her shorts while letting a stinky tantrum above. I gotta stop now, Im laughing so hard.