Boise Wolf Party
August 22, 2008
A reader and resident of the state of Idaho asks, “Is it time for a [wolf tea party in Boise]? When do we declare States Rights?”
December 16, 1773 American colonists, led by Samuel Adams and John Hancock, staged a protest against the British government in Boston Harbor. It was soon known as the Boston Tea Party, a protest against the tea tax levied against the colonists by the British government, believed by many to be a tool to strip the Americans of their freedom. The protesters, in an impromptu, unplanned event, dressed in poorly crafted disguises, boarded three ships laden with tea, worth a reported $1.87 million, and dumped it into the harbor.
This action was received in a variety of different ways but history shows us that this was one of the acts that ultimately led to the American revolution that brought us total freedom from the tyrannical practices of British rule.
Is it time for a “Boise Wolf Party”? It seems that even before the actual release of non-native wolves into the Northern Rockies area, the law, the constitution, the rights and wishes of the people of that region have been squashed.
As the reader asks, “When do we declare state’s rights?”
Tom Remington
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The Revolution was about a bunch of rich people who didn’t want to pay taxes just like you and your friend are a bunch of phony outdoorsmen who wouldn’t know nature if it bit you in the behind.
That was funny.
Now, do it now! Your brother just told me there is an outfit
out there going around to establishments that hire musicians, to collect “royalties” on particular “artists’”
music, should you play it. Now, do it now.
http://www.bmi.com/about/?link=footer
It keeps happening here (AK) as well. The folks that live
here know damn well what to do with wolves, but it’s a crime
to keep your livelyhood. Mental!
Looky what the dumb freedom hater said, ha ha, Lets see, life under the rich men who set up the Constitution and Bill of Rights and rid us of King Tyrant George and let men keep the wealth generated by their own hands, only asking for excise taxes on certain goods to sustain the ” Peoples” government for the safe keeping of the borders and sharing of knowledge in order to not allow a foreign entity, or country to meddle in our affairs, which only lasted until 1868, then steps in the begginngs of what we now have, 50% of mens wealth stolen off the top of the income before it makes it into their hands, Rich Elites absconding with those peoples government and using it to police the world including them. I’ll go with the Rich men dumping tea in Boston Harbor Hands down.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45288
Before dumping wolves in Lucky Peak Harbor we need to toss in those state puppets calling themselves legislator’s and install Constitutionalists in their stead, no more sucking on the federal funds, no more feds in Idaho period, kick out the two legged marxist wolves traitors, toss out their liberal fiends ha ha, and then go shoot all them damn wolves. Be sure to scroll down on the link and read Larry Becraft’s letter on thre ESA Jurisdiction Question and the 17th Amendment trick…….its good, and its the truth.
Wolveshater
It’s time for a Tea Party. One lump, or two?
I disagree with the quote “It seems that even before the actual release of non-native wolves into the Northern Rockies area, the law, the constitution, the rights and wishes of the people of that region have been squashed.” Since there were no successfully breeding pairs of wolves in Idaho at the time of reintroduction the same species found north of Idaho was used; just because there is an international boundary does not make the wolves non-native; all are Canis lupus. In addition there have been several surveys of the citizens of Idaho starting before reintroduction and up to a 2005 +/-, and the number wanting wolves has always out numbered those who don’t. Hunters and ranchers are a lot more vocal! Recent polls in New Mexico and Arizona both showed overwhelming support for reintroduction.
That’s why we’re a republic, not a democracy…the hoards of uneducated, irresponsible, ignorant, and plain dumb people can elect someone who can think. And the dumb wolf lover club is all about city people who think bambi-like anthropomorphic thoughts to impose on people who live with reality…
Even the scientists who brought the wolves in will tell us that they were not pure wolves but a hybrid mix. The reintroduction was forced onto these people with little or no say in the matter the same as it is now.
If the animal rights groups aren’t careful, they will have a vast majority of people who don’t want any wolves at all.
Your suggestions that people want the wolf might be somewhat accurate but if you polled the same people after they have been made aware of the fact we now have too many and that they need to be better managed, they will vote differently.
I concur that most people are okay with the wolves being around. They are not okay with it when the wolves begin killing everything in their path, i.e. elk, deer, donkeys, sheep, cattle, kids, pet dogs, watch dogs, etc. etc.
Hell, I just spent the last three days horseback in the Frank Church, chasing rainbows, it’s eight miles into my little lake, about 30 acres in size, old crater, there were plenty of wolves hanging about in the drainage’s before the high alpine lake and after it when I left, following me down the trail, just looking and howling, I did wake up about 2:30 a.m. Monday morning to them about 100 yards aout barking and raiseing hell, I think they killed a deer, something died foresure, I heard it scream. Then I dozed off again dreaming about those monster rainbow’s I can’t get a hook into yet, maybe when it’s colder. This morning at 11:30 a.m. one lone wolf came to the edge of camp and eyed us over a bit then booked when I walked towards it. I had two mules and two horses with me, steak on a string sorta thing, course if those wolves wanna try my mules well shucks, I might just let em, cuzz my bucks is on the mules, I think they stomp the hell outa that wolfpack. The hooved game is getting thin in there, nothing like it used to be, once thats cleaned up, folks camping in there are going to have to fight to keep their ground in there. I need a new backpacker two man raft, then Im gonna try them rainbows again, in a couple days. Too bad about that wolf hunt that was never gonna happen, got my eye on a big ole boy must be 150 pounds, look good stretched out on my wall here, I just gotta get my mule to do it for me I reckon.
Wolveshater,
Marxist exposer.
Tom Remington, What is your source for the introduced wolves being hybrids? Name the scientists of which you speak.
From Yellowstone National Park web site: “National Park Service (NPS) policy calls for restoring native species when: a) sufficient habitat exists to support a self-perpetuating population, b) management can prevent serious threats to outside interests, c) the restored subspecies most nearly resembles the extirpated subspecies, and d) extirpation resulted from human activities.” These all apply for the reintroduction of wolves into YNP. That is fulfilling a responsibility not forcing an issue.
“the fact we now have too many (wolves)” To many for what? Who made that determination?
jes, “the hoards of uneducated, irresponsible, ignorant, and plain dumb people can elect someone who can think.” I hope they finally do so this November!
“the dumb wolf lover club is all about city people who think bambi-like anthropomorphic thoughts to impose on people who live with reality…” I do support wolves in the western ecosystem. I lived in town only when a kid - Moscow, Idaho. In trying to restablish riparian habitat on my property, I find perhaps a few wolves would be helpful in controlling the beaver that love young pine trees in the spring and deer that browse on all the newly planted hsrdwoods at all times of the year. Between replanting and fencing they are costing thousands of dollars. That is a reality I am living with.
Holy crap! Let’s try to remember what happens to an ecosystem when wolves ARE NOT present. Remember what science is? Deer/Elk are soooooo much more healthier with predators present. The get sick without! How about the food chain? Wow! You are not god, you don’t get to decide who lives and who dies. Please get yourself an education before spouting off all of this gibberish.
Hey HSG - Before calling someone uneducated and an ass, please have enough decency to address to whom you are referring.
Yeah, who are you writing to, HSG?
And Lee, am I addressing a female or a male? I haven’t heard someone begin with that type of opening who wasn’t a female, so are you?
Maybe that shouldn’t make any difference, but I like to be more polite to females…that’s my old cowboy credo, I reckon.
I just read the above post and saw no mention of hybrids..but only mention of “non-native” wolves….did you see elsewhere? Of course, I’m not Tom, so maybe you just want to provoke his answer..Of course they’re non native if they’re imported from Canada.
Maybe you should think twice before you have some wolves to help clean out your beaver…There are some gentleman hunters out there that might do that for you without you having to worry about being attacked when you are least expecting it!
Of course if you’re a woman, they would probably do it for free!
I have to agree with you that I hope the “dumb masses” will elect someone who can think….but given this race, I think they both can…unfortunately, some slick crooks sometimes get to where they use their God given talents to their own selfish motives, so we sometimes have to do some double checking on their backgrounds, just to be sure they aren’t lying!
I take it you don’t hunt, so you probably don’t see the hunter’s point of view…but we have brought back the elk and deer from extinction even if we had to get rid of the wolves to do it…we probably went overboard there, but now, the pendulum is swinging back too far the other way! Wolves overpopulate way too readily! And the elk and deer are getting decimated because of it!
I hope you are a woman…I’m getting tired of wimpy men who sound like ‘em…
I really think the Earth has a human overpopulation problem — not an animal overpopulation problem…. and I think most scientists would agree……..
Sixth graders know the growth rate populous. Who knows what
is more important, man or beast?
Bea Says:
I really think the Earth has a human overpopulation problem — not an animal overpopulation problem…. and I think most scientists would agree……..
October 16th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
God might agree with you on that one. Wide is the highway but narrow is the path. Better decide where you are soon.
Jes
“I just read the above post and saw no mention of hybrids..”
From Tom Remington - post 7: “Even the scientists who brought the wolves in will tell us that they were not pure wolves but a hybrid mix.”
“I take it you don’t hunt, so you probably don’t see the hunter’s point of view” Some hunter’s point is that the wolves are eating THEIR game animals. While I lived in Montana, Idaho, and Maine I did hunt.
“…but we have brought back the elk and deer from extinction even if we had to get rid of the wolves to do it…” Getting rid of the wolf is not what brought back the game; how did they survive before Europeans arrived?
“Of course they’re non native if they’re imported from Canada.” Are Canada geese non native? Are the wolves in NW Montana that moved in on there own non native? How about the new pair in north central Washington? The most damaging animal to game populations in the West is the non native Bos taurus.
Tom - HSG called no one an ass. You never answered my questions.
Bea - a agree - Earth now has a population > 6.85 billion people. This is the greatest threat to the future of all life on Earth; the root of nearly all problems such as high energy prices, declining fish resources, climate change, starvation.. . . It brings to mind the Kingston Trio song “Merry Minuet” They’re rioting in Africa . . . . People on Earth are like mold on bread.
Lee, try having someone “snap” their fingers in front of you.
If that doesn’t do it, read your bible some. Thanks
Lets see, 6.8 billion people….How many acres is TEXAS ? How about Arkansas ? Better yet, how many billions of acres on earth are vacant right now. Gee, any body else notice humans are herded up into big corners, they look like corrals to me. You guys and your de-population bull-shit and ignorant establishment scientists gettin paid to spread filth…..Try doing some real math. And if you insist on supporting genocide bunk from elite think tanks like say the Club of Rome, well then maybe you fruit cups should take a giant leap right off this rock. After all its you fools buying into that junk science, so go get those think tankers who sold you that bill of goods and GET.
Abortion has already killed off the next generation of tax payers. Might be why the population of the US is getting out of balance with more elderly or OLD GUYS living longer. With a declining younger base to make our golden years more comfortable! Soon the US will be like China You will have to get a permit from the Gov. to have One Child.
Lee, you’re right on one count…I did miss that part of the post..caught it later, but anyway I admit that I missed it..That make you feel better?
Now, about the wolf…To tell you the truth I still doubt that you’re a hunter..you say you were..how long ago? What game? Does that make you a anti-hunter now?
What point are you trying to make? That wolves are a good thing for hunters and/or wildlife? That we can’t have too many? That because they were here we need to have as many as the wolves want? Maybe you think things are the same as before man set foot on America, at least for the wolf…? Does the wolf take priority over man? Can you answer any of these questions? Or do you just dispute the fact that the wolves man has re-introduced have some hybrid blood? You would have to go to a lot of trouble to prove that one way or the other…so what’s the point?
Once again I ask you, what’s your stand on this question?
And why would you want to bring back and not control wildlife that exists today which is dependent on man in areas where we would crowd them all out of existence if not protected!
George, with all the queers and lesbians we have today, and the more that are becoming that way every day, with almost everyone’s blessings…I doubt that we’ll have any need for limitations…we’ll have to grow people in the labs! Just another piece of the sick picture….
jes Says:
“Lee, That make you feel better?” Not particularly. It just points out that people see and read what they want.
“Now, about the wolf…To tell you the truth I still doubt that you’re a hunter..you say you were..how long ago?” Last time I shot a deer was in Maine in 1970. “What game?” Idaho: elk and deer; Montana: elk, deer, and bear; Maine deer. I have felt no inclination to hunt in Oregon - too many hunters and shooting a deer out my back or front door doesn’t strike me as hunting and I would rather be on my 105 acres than driving to some more remote spot to go hunting. “Does that make you a anti-hunter now?” Absolutely not! I like going to visit my relates in Idaho and partaking of their bounty.
“What point are you trying to make?” I ask what is your point? “That wolves are a good thing for hunters and/or wildlife?” YES they are in that they have and will hopefully continue to shape the evolution of their prey and that the ecosystem benefits by moderating herbivore numbers and distribution. “That we can’t have too many?” I asked before by whose judgement are there too many? I do not have a problem with hunting wolves once they have reached a significant number - no I don’t know how many that is but don’t believe that it is at the bare minimum number stated for the delisting. “That because they were here we need to have as many as the wolves want?” What do you mean by what the wolves want - they don’t! “Maybe you think things are the same as before man set foot on America, at least for the wolf…?” I certainly do not and not for most native species including native Americans. “Does the wolf take priority over man?” In this statement replace wolf with native species and my answer is yes in some areas, especially public lands. “Can you answer any of these questions?” I have tried. “Or do you just dispute the fact that the wolves man has re-introduced have some hybrid blood?” I have asked for sources to find out if it is a fact, which I doubt, or at least some reputable scientist showing substantiating evidence; no it is not a primary concern. All the evidence I have read is that the introduced wolves were in fact Canus lupus - the same species that was eliminated in the West. The fact that they came from Canada has no bearing on the case. “You would have to go to a lot of trouble to prove that one way or the other…so what’s the point?” I am not trying to prove that point - just give me the facts.
“Once again I ask you, what’s your stand on this question?” I am not sure what your question is - there have been so many and I have tried to answer them in sequence.
“And why would you want to bring back and not control wildlife that exists today which is dependent on man in areas where we would crowd them all out of existence if not protected!” Hummmm . . I would like to see areas that do not need to be controlled by humans - like wilderness areas. Does it make you fell superior to all those species that we protect. The answer to why is because we are decreasing biological diversity and do not know the consequences of our actions; man is arrogant. We are crowding ourselves out of existence like mold on bread.
You responded to none of my comments about Canada geese, nw Montanta wolves or foreign cows. I would like to add sheep to the list also - they bring disease to our native bighorns. And let’s nix the chinese pheasant since it is a non native.
October 21st, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Another thing the wolves have done is to increase hunting pressure in areas that have fewer wolves and more elk. This year in North Idaho we are seeing many more elk hunters from other areas. I’ve talked to many hunters this season that used to hunt the clearwater or Lochsaw and even southern Idaho and came to the panhandle this year because their herds in those areas have been depleted.It also put a lot more pressure on our resident herds. It can probably handle for a year or two but with the wolves numbers increasing up here and the extra pressure from the extra hunters I would say it won’t be long and we’ll see some real troubles. And before someone says that I just don’t like the extra competition and it makes the hunt to hard, I already got my bull the 3rd day of season, took half the night and half the day to get him out but he’s in the freezer. My partner also got his and by the time we got back to it a bear had already started to help himself, then we got to pack out my patrners elk and his bear.
Yep, The hunting here is a wipe out, I’m driving 160 miles from my mountain home to hunt the Lower Frank Church Wilderness, what have I seen since October 10, ZERO elk, Five does. Last night I’m sitting in my driveway listening to wolves howling at dusk, this area 48-49 in 1995 was a sought after controlled elk tag, both units combined had 6,500 elk, now that is 900 elk or less, hiding on private land. I ride my horse 1000 miles every summer, I’ve seen two cow elk, where in 1999 I saw over 80 consistantly. North of me is unit 36, I’ve walked 40 miles in two weeks, used to find elk in those places no problem, NOTHING, not even tracks. A little farther North is unit 35, I grew up in unit 35, NOTHING no tracks, A little further is unit 34, I’ve walked and horse backed this unit for the last three months, two cow elk, three does, over 35 wolves. Unit 33, walked into an old haunt and found a few tracks of elk running through the spot with wolf tracks chasing them, found one dead half eaton bull.
I ride a mountain bike all summer, I hike all summer and winter too, I horse back, I’m fit, I am an avid hunter, mountain wandering fellow, I know Idaho like the back of my hands, we are being wiped out by the wolves, Their digging up hybernatiing bears in winter, killin them, chasing down foxes and killin them, The game birds are being decimated, I used to have some foreign ring tails here, their gone, in all my travels I usually could count 100+ sage grouse, not now, Ive seen two, The blue grouse and his cousin, the Ruffed grouse Ive seen less than twenty. I should be seeing 100+ of those as well.
But hey man, there is that beautiful howling outside my window at night, gotta love that. I don’t hear the coyotes any more, their killed around here, in 1995 we had close to 300 Antelopes here, now we got less than 30. Yep those wolves are hell on echo systems, God that sure was a good idea to force them wolves on us, no vote just here ya are, and don’t touch em, even if their killin your dog or horse, we will bankrupt you and imprison you if you do !! Oh yea, ain’t America a beautiful thing from Sea to shineing Sea, Land of the Free, Home of the brave. Unhuh…..
Well, unit 39 here I come, I hear tell there’s some critters left in that unit yet. Guess I’ll try my luck helping the wolf STARVE HISSELF TO DEATH because less intelligent people dont get it YET whats REALLY going on across Idaho. Any body that don’t see this banking crisis for what it is, the possible collapse of the currency soon, likely mid 09 by my estimation, grocery stores with empty shelves, soldiers in our streets backing up police to keep the peace, gas and diesel locked up cause no one can buy it, and conviently 14 years prior to this wolf facade program the forest is depleated on game.
I know what time it is. And a bunch of citizens with pop guns think they will stop this nonsense, unhuh, well keep in mind, Iraq was set up with WWII equipment and munitions, the Popers Roman Thug army rolled overthat shit like it was a bug on their windsheilds. Get ready for you N.A.U., kiss the founders documents good by, And Lee, thanks a bunch for supporting the traitors and their EGYPTIAN SIRIUS WOLF DOG IDOL. False idol.
Lee, thanks for taking time for your rebuttal, but you might wonder if and where we are at odds, here. If you had been keeping up with what is going on this blog, or any that have people who are living where the wolves have been released, you would have been hearing the “rest of the story”…
If the last time you went hunting was in the 70’s, that’s a shame…why did you quit? If you have relatives in Idaho, where wolves have been released, why don’t you ask them, if they hunt enough to get out there and find out for themselves, what impact does this have on deer and elk, for instance?
One point I will make is that hunters are just about the only people who will really get out and stay out in the woods long enough to see and get a good picture of what’s happening to the game….as far as I can see, the biologist never really get out that much but count on either their own fiction, or half assed research to make up their stories…having been a scientist, myself, I saw this happen all too often!
Maybe you need some wolves back home with you so you can get to know them….and the impact on the other wildlife…but that’s right, you don’t hunt anymore, so you couldn’t care less! You just want wolves around….so why don’t you get some yourself, I’m sure your neighbors would love it! You could get some first hand experience, and maybe have a few close calls yourself! That would spice up your life! And those nasty old deer that eat your rosebushes could get eaten themselves! And you could get to watch it!
And I like wilderness areas as well, but unless the protection for the wolf is removed, the natural order is going to be no game for the wolf, and thus, they starve as well as eliminate the game people have protected for centuries because we needed them for game, for food, and for the pleasure of being…
You need to pay attention to this website as well as others were the hunter is given credence for his powers of observation and concern…I hope you aren’t too old to go…I’m 65 and almost got a buck with my bow last week…so no excuses..unless your 90 or so!
As far as geese are concerned, they are migratory….wolves are too, to some extent, but much less so. You would have a hard time convincing the federal government that all wolves are one specie or another…they have their own categories that defy explanation…even when dogs interbreed with wolves..
Hope you check in more often and listen to the people who are having to deal with wolves on a daily basis, instead of the people who don’t. Maybe you could learn more than the tripe they want you to believe…
ar Says: “Lee, try having someone “snap†their fingers in front of you. If that doesn’t do it, read your bible some.” I don’t have a bible and if I did I would not read it.
To Greg F.,”got my eye on a big ole boy must be 150 pounds, look good stretched out on my wall” and that at one time you had raised a native male wolf with a weight of 115 pounds? The first wolves reintroduced into Idaho in 1995 came from SW Alberta. The heaviest one was a 101 pound male. The average weight of the 12 adults (6 female, 6 male) was 87 pounds. The 1996 introductions came from NE British Columbia; the largest was a 135 pound male; the average for the adults (5 female, 10 male) was 112.6 pounds. Years ago I saw, in Glacier National Park, the mounted head of a female wolf taken there in a spring month and her weight was listed as 135 pounds. There were large wolves in the United States Rockies prior to their extripation.
As to population “Try doing some real math.” Granted there is lots of land that doesn’t have a person standing on it but land is needed to raise food and the more people the more food. At the current rate of growth in 50 years the earth will have over 12 billion. I’m glad I won’t be here then. Earth’s land area is 196,940,400 miles squared for short approximately 200,000,000 or 2 x 10^8 mi^2 (^ means raised to the shown power). The population is about 7 x 10^9. Dividing people by square miles gives 35 people per square mile. This inludes areas like Antarctica. Idaho has a population density of about 16/sqmi. 640 acres/sqmi divided by 35 people/sqmi gives about 18 acres per person. We are lucky to live in an “underpopulated” area! What do you consider a reasonable number of Earth occupants? You sound like a person who likes to spend a lot of time alone outdoors - I would think you would prefer to see no population growth in Idaho. It is not just land that people use but resources.
To Jes “If the last time you went hunting was in the 70’s, that’s a shame…why did you quit?” If you have relatives in Idaho, where wolves have been released, why don’t you ask them, if they hunt enough to get out there and find out for themselves, what impact does this have on deer and elk, for instance?
I hit a wrong key and sent the last post of too soon.
To Jes “If the last time you went hunting was in the 70’s, that’s a shame…why did you quit?†Here is the answer from before: I have felt no inclination to hunt in Oregon - too many hunters and shooting a deer out my back or front door doesn’t strike me as hunting; I would rather be on my 105 acres than driving to some more remote spot to go hunting.
“If you have relatives in Idaho, where wolves have been released, why don’t you ask them, if they hunt enough to get out there and find out for themselves, what impact does this have on deer and elk, for instance?” Prior to wolf reintroduction I told my son-in law that I would not push for Grizzly bears if he would not fight against wolves. I kept my end and he probably did his also. My brother said he didn’t mind the wolves just easterners pushing it on them. My brother and daughter live in the Clearwater and go elk hunting every year. I know they both got one last year - pretty much as usual. Haven’t heard yet this year since they frequently do the late muzzle loader hunt.
“Maybe you need some wolves back home with you so you can get to know them….and the impact on the other wildlife…but that’s right, you don’t hunt anymore, so you couldn’t care less!” I have said before I could use some depredation on deer and beaver. I do enjoy the deer around here - see them nearly every day. The coyotes haven’t wiped them out and I don’t believe the wolves would either.
“You would have a hard time convincing the federal government that all wolves are one specie or another…they have their own categories that defy explanation” The feds call all north american wolves the same species except for the red wolf of the SE - where is your evidence that it is otherwise? There are currently 3 Canis species recognized in the world Canis lupus, Canis rufous, and Canis simensis (ethiopian). Just because there is an international boundary between Canada and USA does not make the same species north of the border a different one from that to the south - all are Canis lupus.
I would not object to a season on wolves but Idaho’s proposal was for an excessive kill. How come Minnesota supports far more wolves in a smaller area than Idaho does and they still have lots of deer? Seems more are killed on highways during a year than by wolves.