Pray, Montana Suffers Massive Wolf Kills On Elk Herd
Posted by Tom Remington on February 27, 2008
Robert T. Fanning Jr. is an integral part of Friends of the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd. Bob has for years been saying that the gray wolves in and around the Yellowstone area are ravaging the elk herd.
In a recent email from Mr. Fanning to Wolf Crossing, Fanning says there’s not much left.
There used to be 19,700 elk in the Mt FWP (Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks) winter range next to my home, now we are down to 400.
No bulls.
No calves.
All the cows average over 9 years old.
I would assume that Mr. Fanning knows how to count and living next to the winter range for the Yellowstone elk herd, he would probably have more opportunity than most to keep track of numbers. If these numbers are accurate, this is a travesty. Is this what we have to look forward to with continued unchecked protection of the gray wolf? Are we going to sit idly by while allowing a predator complete run of the range while the elk herd, of which millions of dollars have been invested, gets wiped out?
I’m sorry but this is wrong!
Tom Remington
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[...] Smart Fashionista wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerpt Robert T. Fanning Jr. is an integral part of Friends of the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd. Bob has for years been saying that the gray wolves in and around the Yellowstone area are ravaging the elk herd. In a recent email from Mr. Fanning to Wolf Crossing, Fanning says there’s not much left. There used to be 19,700 elk in the Mt FWP (Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks) winter range next to my home, now we are down to 400. No bulls. No calves. All the cows average over 9 years old. I would a [...]
February 27th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Think it’s time to decide..elk or wolves. To be honest I don’t mind having to go to the zoo to one.
February 27th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
to see one
February 27th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Or see a rerun of “Call Of The Wild”
February 27th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Wolf Crossing is really getting to be a great site to visit- I for one appreciate that breath of fresh air, all there used to be was save the wolfy sites- now we have wolf crossing, save our elk, and more it’s great. Too bad the wolves are still ravaging our herds all the while we’re trying to open up some eyes as to what’s really going on!
February 27th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
I don’t know much about wolves or what they are doing, but I don’t really care. I wish you would write about something else. Preferably something that outdoorsmen actually care about.
February 27th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Look Mr. Tim, it is kill or be killed on the prairie. My cousin Jebadia was killed by one of tehm fierce and dangerous animals. We have to irradiate these unfriendly beasts. Have you ever seen a wolf? They are like big scary dogs, but more dangerouse. In Norse mythology wolves are feared and one of them is coming end of days named Fenrir. They new these animals are dangerous, and so should you.
February 27th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Elk are an indangered species we must protect them so give up your hunts and give up your guns and then those advocates of stealing your rights and property rights can move forward with those other agendas on the back of them clip boards. ha ha. We need to tattoo a number on your arm soon too folks, and no Mohawk hair cuts at school no more either, got it. The thought police will be by later. You know how it is, truth begets hatred. stop picking on those wolfies. ha ha ha.
February 27th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
It’s time for some common sense. Just shoot the wolves.
February 28th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Tim, unless your objective as an “outdoorsman” is to look at a mountian blue jay or a red-tailed hawk, this is by far the most important issue facing the hunting population today. If wolf advocates get their way and they are, they will set a precedent to stop all predator control. If you’re a hunter, you must know that every prey population dealing with unchcked predators will be devastated. Did you not read the above words, “there used to be 19,700 elk in the MT (Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks) winter range next to my home, now we are down to 400, no bulls, no calves and all the cows average over 9 years old.” This is a crisis Tim, what would you have us talk about? How big of a bull YOU shot last year, or how many pheasants you shot last year, please humor us and tell us what you think “outdoorsmen and women” would prefer to talk about.
“Wolf facts: Notwithstanding the wolf advocates’ propaganda, several thousand recored human deaths resulting from wolf attacks worlwide have been compiled and published. Many were copied from historical records covering only brief periods in time.
For example, during one three year period from June 1764 to June 1767, 210 recored wolf attacks in the Gevauden Region of southern France resulted in 49 people wounded and 113 killed. Of those killed, at least 98 were partially consumed.
The government record keepers were familiar with attacks by rabid wolves and none of the 210 attacks fell into that category. Proof of this is that most of the dead victims were eaten and none of the survivors died from rabies.
From 1800-1824, statistics compiled from French records show that 225 victims were attcked by rabid wolves and another 295 were attacked by non-rabid wolves. But wolf attacks on humans dropped dramaticallly in France and other European countries during that period. Wolf attack victims in France declined from 1,724 in the previous 100 years, to 196 in the next 175 years.
What caused the change? The same two things caused the decline in wolf attacks on several continents. (1) Widespread use of firearms for protection from wolves in rural areas; and (2) massive predator control programs.
In Russia between 1944 and 1950, 22 children between the ages of 3 and 17 were attacked and killed by wolves in areas around Kirov. A government commission documented 80 Russians dying from wolf attacks during that period.” (The Outdoorsman, bulletin number 4). I use these facts, to illustrate that the the threat is “real” and that this subject is exactly what “outdoorsmen” should be talking about.
We as the hunting public should all be banding together, nationwide, to stop this devastation of one of our greatest natural resources. The facts are, unchecked predators kill and injure more humans and devastate prey populations. STOP THE INSANITY AND BRING BACK SOUND BIOLOGICAL MANAGMENT!!!!!
Thanks Paul D
February 28th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Paul is Right and I also have this information myself in my Master wolf file Ive been building. Not only that the Largest Elk herd of the North West from the Selway is GONE guys. 26,000 elk in 1996 and four head have been seen at the Winter Ranges along the Clear Water In Idaho. As well the Middle Fork of the Boise River used to have 10,000+ elk Wintering along this River from Atlanta to Lucky Peak, Ive driven this road three times this Winter and I have glassed 160 head. The South Fork of the Boise River should have 8,000 head along that drainage and Ive seen 57 elk in there. The Payette River between Grandjean and Lowman Idaho where I grew up and still spend time at should have 4500 head of elk in those wintering spots, I located 54 cows, no bulls, no calves. I found 300 elk in the King Hill Area South of Bennett Mountain, there should be 5000 head there. All I can say is WAY TO GO WOLF PROGRAM and those delusional wolf lovers, way to go. Here is that clear water flying Idaho’s backcountry for elk link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeD45eM_DN0 I must go out onto my front porch now and fill my wolfie bowl with doggy food.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Might be why advancements in gun design during the 1700’s happened. Men got tired of the wolves eating their women. LOL
February 28th, 2008 at 11:55 am
[...] Pray, Montana Suffers Massive Wolf Kills On Elk Herd [...]
February 29th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
[...] other day I posted a brief comment from Robert Fanning of the Friends of the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd. In Pray, Montana, which is just outside the [...]
February 29th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
[...] I posted the short article mentioned above about Bob Fanning’s claims that nearly 20,000 elk have been reduced to 400, [...]
February 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
[...] I posted the short article mentioned above about Bob Fanning’s claims that nearly 20,000 elk have been reduced to 400, [...]
February 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
As a current resident of Pray, Montana and a avid hunter and elk watcher I am disappionted in Mr. Fanning’s claim that there are only 400 elk left on the wintering range near his home. Wolves have undoubtedly had a large effect, along with other factors, on the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd. I have watched these herd counts dwindle in the last decade after the herd reached their peak numbers. This year alone there are more than 400 cows on the winter range and around it. There are also bulls still up high in the deep snow that are part of this herd. Admittedly there are less elk, but not to the degree that Mr. Fanning reported. The herd is definitely in danger of being wiped out, but the number 400 is an exaggeration and does little to help the credibility that this herd is in trouble. In order to help, we need to be accurate and level headed about the situation, or else we sound no better than someone who would say that wolves had no effect on the recent decline.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Thanks for the constructive input to this discussion, Alan! It’s appreciated.
February 29th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
That is a good point by Allen, But how much snow is around that Range, I can tell you this, In Idaho we have a lot of Snow, and the Bulls are not up high here, and what of the calves? where are they? I have found several dead bulls up high, I’m thinking they stay-up high to avoid being eaton. Also found a 34″ 6×7 Mule deer at 8,000ft on the 48-44 hunt border dead from starvation, What do you suppose Kept this Buck up on that Rock pile in Winter? I have been finding horns in places I never used to in tha past, high on ridges and in basins. I guess I would sit up there myself and starve before being eaton alive. Why do you think hunts end early? So to allow all the game to migrate The game know we have left, they know the wolves are still there. Bears are being dug from their dens and eaton while half asleep. If the bulls are up high in my neck of the woods, they are under the snow, or are scat.
February 29th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Greg, I couldn’t agree more. We’ve found kills where antlers used to be, things are changing in a way that shows something is detrimentally awry. And although Fanning may have underestimated the number of elk in MT, and I can see what Allan means, his statement stands out that “The herd is definitely in danger of being wiped out,” which is the truth that needs addressed- we musn’t wait until the current number of animals there dip below 400, and the numbers of ungulates in the northwest dip and dip to the point that it’s too late.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Alan, I don’t find your comments to be constructive, in that, you pretty much are saying the same thing as Mr. Fanning and then harshly critisizing him. You said “This year alone there are more than 400 cows on the winter range and around it. There are also bulls still up high in the deep snow that are part of this herd.” How is that different, then him saying, he could only count 400 cows this year on that winter range, and no bulls or calves. How many elk in this area did YOU count? You stated the bulls are up high in the deep snow. The majority of those bulls will probably not make it through this winter because of predation and/or starvation. Unless, my math skills since college have withered, isn’t 19,700 animals killed down to appx. 400 animals, almost a 5000 percent decrease in herd size!
Even if there were several thousand head on these winter grounds, it is still a drop in the bucket compared to 20,000. How is this biologicly sound? These elk on these winter grounds are coming out of many different drainages to congregate, in the only place they can find food. This means that out of all those drainages, there are only remnants of elk herds there.
March 1st, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Hello again! I am sorry that you did not appreciate the comment that I posted on this blog sir. I do not mean to offend anyone with what I said and completely agree that this herd is in trouble. The point I was trying to reach is that we need to have our facts straight if the hunting community wants to be credible on the situation. I have not personally counted the herd due to time constraints and the lack of a helicopter. Mr. Tom Lemke, local biologist for the area, recently performed his annual helicopter count of this herd and found the number of bulls, cows, and calves to equal 6,279 elk. Quite a difference between that number and 400. This count is very similar to the results found in the last two years with 6,588 in 2006 and 6,738 in 2007, but is still a huge drop from the peak in population. The bulls that I spoke of as being “up high” are in the areas that they usually range in. Whether or not these animals die from starvation or predation is up to mother nature. The point I was trying to reach is that these bulls are high enough (and are usually high enough) that to try and count them without a helicopter is impossible. Once again, I do not mean to offend anyone. I am just trying to set the facts straight.
March 1st, 2008 at 9:12 pm
I will say that the Idaho Fish and Game Department flys an area and if they actually see 100 elk they estimate there should be another 200 elk they missed or were under cover. Thus they write down 300, or maybe even 400 and then move onto the next canyon, or range, depending on the time of year they do the counts. Ultimately they are guessing. I have this first hand from two officers of the Idaho Fish and Game. Grew up with these fellers, and they are angry like I am, yet will not speak out as they can not, because they would be fired. I have been running with officers of the game department since childhood and hear news often thru these sources. I considered it for a career myself, but chose other more lucrative means of self employment. So I would suspect Montana functions in the same capacity doing these counts which ultimately are guessing. Ive known for many years now that these counts are not reliable by the agencies. Its business to them folks, think about it, would you come out and admit there are less than 1000 elk, knowing you need to sell 40,000 tags to sustain your business. I would not buy a tag from that agency, would you. This is the case in Idaho, and I tell every one stop buying tags. stop now. They are lying to us. Im hunting Montana over the counter next fall, and applying for goats and sheep in three states. Folks should understand that the federal government is in control of what these state agencies release to the public thru the FWS itself. They just spent billions on a failure. we paid for it, now we are going to pay to fix it most likely, first those wolf avocates will waste millions of tax-dollars defending against the suits which are ready and shall be filed soon. They will lie about the counts because it is a strategy which prolongs the populance from getting the truth, those agencies are sadly more credible than those of us on the ground telling you the truth as we see it. I covered another 120 miles on the ground in the last two days. Im still trying to find 175,000 elk in Idaho as claimed by this angency, Im coming up way short.
March 1st, 2008 at 10:05 pm
The wolf will just as readily kill and eat humans as it will the elk and dear. If our game populations are decimated we will have wolves in town. We are already at risk when we are out on our atvs or snowcats or biking on the bike trail or fishing or hunting. There was a reason our grandfathers got rid of the wolves and it didn’t just have to due with protecting live stock. The ecology isn’t the same as it was 200 years ago. Our big game herds are managed by hunting now not by predators. To reintroduce wolves will most likely destroy our dear and elk and our ability to enjoy this beautiful country. I wonder if the folks who thought this up didn’t know this? John
April 1st, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Just noticed that “Alan ” wrote in to refute me and the photograph of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation / Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks winter range being devoid of once abundant elk. The winter range is my next door neighbor.
2,800 cow tags were canceled.I had the balls to use my full name , “Alan” did not.
There are no bulls left.
We all assume;
1) Alan lives here
2)Alan hunts
3) Alan doesn’t work for Mt FWP who breeched the public trust by not petitioning to delist wolves
Mt FWP and Lemke flew 50 miles north of the winter range to get their census count.
Pictures dont lie.
Bottom line ; there are 14,000 dead elk and the bureaucrats got off scott free.
I am in constant contact with outfitters, guides and sportsmen in this area.
They all agree with me.
April 16th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
All the hunting tag reductions are a confession as far as I’m concerned, Idaho has had many tag cuts as well. Time to end the era od ” Bureaucraps.”
April 16th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Ouch. Alan. Looks like you took a good hit here. You guys don’t seem to get his point. If you really want something done, if this is indeed a crisis, things have got to be damn accurate. And going off half cocked at the government doesn’t help. There are a lot of reasons why elk die. Someone, one of you well experienced outdoorsmen, needs to find out exactly why they are dying. Yeah, wolves kill a lot. yeah, they will at times kill more than they can eat. But sometimes these animals die for other reasons. (check out the moose/wolf research done on Isle Royal. In 2 years the moose population went from around 2400 down to 500. And it wasn’t the wolves that killed them off. It’s a really interesting study done by Rolf Peterson.)
If you want people to take this seriously, and I mean people who are not already behind you guys 110%, then you really need to get some facts down. And please, I don’t mean more grisely pictures of wolf kills, what does that prove? Cougars kill like that, bears too. Any predator will!
And I am still trying to sort this all out. How many of you want them completely gone? how many just want controls put on them? I don’t think completely gone is the solution either.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Cougers do not kill like wolves do, cougers strangle their large prey, and then move it off and hide it by burying it and then feeding on the kill for days. Bears do not kill or waste game like wolves either, when the bear takes down an elk or deer, the animal is usaully slow and old, and the bear will eat an elk in one night, seen it first hand. Bears mostly steal from the couger. Wolves are wasting and sport killing machines. We had perfect management of big game herds until the re-introduction of wolves. What was once plentiful in 13 short years is all but decimated with cow to calf elk ratios at 30% or less in the three states of Idaho/Wyoming/Montana. The only other predator that behaves like the wolves is the coyotes. Eight years ago Idaho Fish And Game started selling way to many Cow elk and Doe deer permits via controlled hunts, at the time I thought this was stupid and it was. Idaho Fish and Game has cut most controlled hunt tags state wide by 50% or more, I even heard 60%. The states involved in wolf reintroduction never had the prey base or the landspace for this program to be success. Canada did have the land space and prey base thus the wolves would move about in those larger open spaces and had/have success in Canada. That is just not the case in our lower 48. When government agencies lie lie lie to push an agenda no matter what for profit, the people need to stand up and point to the truths as our founders said so long ago, these truths are self evident. I suggest you look harder for it, start by reading George Dovels Report right here as Tom has placed it in a PDF for all to see. One major human error we see is the error of denial, or the confession of failure by government ” employees.” Sorry we wasted millions on a mistake, HA. Like that will ever come to light by those who perpetrated the mistake.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:07 pm
[...] Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks winter range next to my home, now we are down to 400. No bulls. …http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2008/02/27/pray-montana-suffers-massive-wolf-kills-on-elk-herd/Lake Elmo State Parkhttp://fwp.mt.gov. Email: fwprg52mt.gov … Billings, MT 59105. Phone: [...]
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Greg Farber, you are GARBAGE.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
[...] Pray, Montana Suffers Massive Wolf Kills On Elk Herd - Black Bear Blog - Black… Long Time Passing : Wyoming Hunting Today Says: [...] I posted the short article mentioned above about Bob Fanning s claims that nearly 20,000 elk have been reduced to 400, [...] February 29th, 2008 at 1:25 pm Alan Says: As a current resident of Pray, Montana and a avid hunter and elk watcher I am disappionted in Mr. I have been finding horns in places I never used to in tha past, high on ridges and… [...]
September 10th, 2008 at 1:43 pm